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Are muslims God's people? (Read 23413 times)
Yadda
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Are muslims God's people?
Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:18am
 
.
Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture,
.....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS.



Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.


Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18  He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
19  Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.


++++++++++++


Advice to Allah's people, from the Koran....

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html#047.008
v. 8-11


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.089


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.028


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.144


"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123


"Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.102


"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/048.qmt.html#048.029


"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.073
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/066.qmt.html#066.009


"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.101


"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216



+++++++++


Examples of Allah's finest, "striving hard against the unbelievers."



Saudis Call for Interfaith Dialogue Hypocritical
August 18 2008
"......This is laughable and ludicrous. What and whose extremism and tolerance is Abdullah talking about? It is his country that is fostering extremism and intolerance. Till this day, Saudi schoolbooks, the local media, and mosques daily preach hatred and violence against other faiths. For example, Lorenzo, a Philippine worker who was carrying a cross around his neck was jailed and tortured for six years, then, a month ago, he was deported."

http://europenews.dk/en/node/13194

Yes, the 'crime' was having a crucifix, inside Saudi Arabia.

These muslims, are soooo tolerant of the ppl of other faiths.
/sarc off


Google,
Saudi Arabia maid abuse
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Saudi+Arabia+maid+abuse&btnG=Search&meta...



MAID ABUSE

.....within Sharia jurisdictions, it is ALWAYS the most vulnerable [women, children, and non-muslims], who suffer the worst injustices.


...
http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/03/indonesian_maid.html



...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7415290.stm



...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3204297.stm


Maid abuse in the UAE
October 13, 2004

http://chanadbahraini.blogspot.com/2004/10/maid-abuse-in-uae.html


Dubai: Migrant Workers at Risk
......many migrant workers suffer from discrimination, exploitation and abuse. Migrants, including large numbers of women employed as domestic servants, face intimidation and violence, including sexual assault, at the hands of employers, supervisors, sponsors and police and security forces. Children are especially vulnerable to labor and sexual exploitation and denial of basic rights.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/09/19/uae6388.htm





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« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2008 at 12:47pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #1 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:29am
 

Quote:
Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture,
.....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS.


Anyone who's actually known and spent time with Arabs/Muslims, would tell you that one thing you can't fault them on is their hospitality...

Nevermind, carry on..
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Yadda
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #2 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:43am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:29am:
Quote:
Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture,
.....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS.


Anyone who's actually known and spent time with Arabs/Muslims, would tell you that one thing you can't fault them on is their hospitality...

Nevermind, carry on..




abu,

I have heard that myself, that many muslims are very hospitable.

[In fact i have myself experienced the kind hospitality of muslims.]

And i would concede that point to you.



BUT,

There are obvious examples where such muslim hospitality and geniality, is not universally extended to, strangers, and the infidel.

In fact, there is evidence of a tremendous amount of abuse [from those claiming to be muslims], directed towards those who are 'outsiders'.


+++++++++


ANOTHER EXAMPLE.....
.....OF OVERT RACISM, WITHIN SAUDI SOCIETY.....



April 21, 2007
How a British jihadi saw the light
Ed Hussain, once a proponent of radical Islam in London, tells how his time as a teacher in Saudi Arabia led him to turn against extremism
.......A non-Saudi black student I had met at the British Council accompanied me. “Last week a woman gave birth here,” he said, pointing to a ramshackle cardboard shanty. Disturbed, I now realised that the materials I had seen those women carrying were not always for sale but for shelter.
I had never expected to see such naked poverty in Saudi Arabia.
At that moment it dawned on me that Britain, my home, had given refuge to thousands of black Africans from Somalia and Sudan: I had seen them in their droves in Whitechapel. They prayed, had their own mosques, were free and were given government housing.
Many Muslims enjoyed a better lifestyle in non-Muslim Britain than they did in Muslim Saudi Arabia. At that moment I longed to be home again.
All my talk of ummah seemed so juvenile now. It was only in the comfort of Britain that Islamists could come out with such radical utopian slogans as one government, one ever expanding country, for one Muslim nation. The racist reality of the Arab psyche would never accept black and white people as equal.
.......Racism was an integral part of Saudi society. My students often used the word “black person” to describe black people. Even dark-skinned Arabs were considered inferior to their lighter-skinned cousins. I was living in the world’s most avowedly Muslim country, yet I found it anything but. I was appalled by the imposition of Wahhabism in the public realm, something I had implicitly sought as an Islamist.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_ext...



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« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:50am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #3 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:24am
 
Quote:
BUT


always gotta be one of these doesn't there? Smiley

I might shock you, but I agree Saudi (and most other Gulf) society can be racist. Especially towards people of sub-Contnent background, and that is disgusting, but has nothing to do with Islam.
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Yadda
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #4 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:46am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:24am:
Quote:
BUT


always gotta be one of these doesn't there? Smiley




Quote:
I might shock you, but I agree Saudi (and most other Gulf) society can be racist. Especially towards people of sub-Contnent background, and that is disgusting, but


Thank you abu.




Quote:
"........but [this] has nothing to do with Islam."



Well, you may wish to keep believing that abu, that the nature of ISLAM, is not reflected in the lives of its adherents.


But i pray, that the spirit of God will reveal something else to you abu, and to all muslims.

I know that many muslims are good ppl [but i don't believe this is so, because of the influence of ISLAM upon them].



+++++++


Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44  For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?








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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #5 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 12:31pm
 

Abu - I feel this may be another time we agree on something.

All people are Gods people.
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #6 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 3:21pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:29am:
Quote:
Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture,
.....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS.


Anyone who's actually known and spent time with Arabs/Muslims, would tell you that one thing you can't fault them on is their hospitality...

Nevermind, carry on..


Like those maids?

Doesn't Islam command Muslims to force Dhimmis into a state of permanent humiliation?
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 4:48pm
 
Quote:
Well, you may wish to keep believing that abu, that the nature of ISLAM, is not reflected in the lives of its adherents.


If the actions of the general society determine what Islam is to be judged by rather than it's teachings, then can I take the liberty of applying the same yardstick to Christianity? Even just looking at some of the threads on this forum, one could deduce that Christianity is responsible forr incest, prostate cance in gay men who are on the 'receiving end', gay parents, cheering and jubilation at the news students had been killed in an air bombing.... and the list goes on. So actually I think if we use your yardstick, Islam would probably still come out on top.

Up to you though... Want to be judged by the same rules? Isn't there a Christian saying something like this... "Judge not, lest you be judged"?

Quote:
But i pray, that the spirit of God will reveal something else to you abu, and to all muslims.


If you mean reveal to us that we should believe in trinitarian polytheism, then don't hold out too much hope for us.

Cos I guarantee you this, until you do away with that deviant and pagan aspect of your religion, no Muslim, who knows even 1/100th. of his religion would ever even look sideways at Christianity.
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #8 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 4:54pm
 
Come on freediver. It's hardly fair to judge a religion based on the crimes of a few members of a society where that religion is dominant. Should we blame Christianity for instance for Martin Bryants rampage through Port Arthur? Or how about those 'parents' who starved their child to death on the NSW north coast recently, or the many cases of people keeping their own kids in cages like animals, or that monster recently in Austria who kept his own daughter under his house and had several kids with her.... or any of the other truly despicable crimes against humanity that we see almost daily come out of Western Christian societies?
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #9 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 5:12pm
 
Sorry Abu, my mistake. Please take this opportunity to educate me on the level of hospitality that Muslims are expected to show 'non-Dhimmi' unbelievers. I started a thread about it on Islam for you.
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #10 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 5:17pm
 
So you don't see anything abhorant in non-Western non-Christian societies?

Particularly Muslim ones?
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #11 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 5:22pm
 

Grendel, did you happen to actually read my second post in this thread, post #3?
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #12 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 5:24pm
 
Did it say anything sensible for a change?

Or was it just a rail against the Saudis as usual.

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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #13 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 5:27pm
 

You fickle little man.

Quote:
Or was it just a rail against the Saudis as usual.


Is not a very consistent response to:

Quote:
So you don't see anything abhorant in non-Western non-Christian societies?
Particularly Muslim ones?


Try to be at least a little bit consistent, if you want to maintain some semblance of credibility.
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Re: Are muslims God's people?
Reply #14 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 6:32pm
 
Sorry Abu. How impolite of me. I forgot to add the link to that thread I mentioned about the treatment of atheists, Hindus etc:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226292000
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