Quote:






'Palestinians' are mostly Jordanians, who came to enjoy the benefits of the development of the land, by Jewish settlers early in the 1900's.

If you read Mark Twains account of the holy land, in his travels there in the late 1800's the land was empty almost of ppl.

The pop of Jerusalem was a mere 14,000.


Google,
Mark Twain jerusalem population
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Mark+Twain+jerusalem+population&btnG=Goo...iSince 1948, Arabs have lost a number of major conflicts with Israel.

Why can't the Arab's live in peace with their non-muslim neighbour?

Isn't it true that this perpetual conflict with Israel, is not about Jews and Arabs.

But about the ISLAMIC supremacy doctrine over non-muslims, that once ISLAM has authority over a land area, if that land is ever subsequently lost in battle, all muslims [the Ummah] must unite in the fight to regain that piece of land - for ISLAM, Allah?

And, the first World War [WWI], changed the maps of those lands once controlled by the Turkish state [the Ottoman Empire].

So, putting aside this ISLAMIC malice, against unbelievers, don't Jews have just as much right [historically] to 'Palestine'?

The surrounding Arab nations have lost 4 major conflicts over the land of Israel.

Isn't it time for Israel's Arab neighbours to concede, and live in peace with their new neighbours?


+++++++++

Why don't the Palestinians have a state?

First of all, the Palestinian Arabs do have a state. Its called Jordan.
.....Palestinian Arabs have been offered the opportunity to create a state many times,...

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_whynostate.php

Also,
In 1948 the surrounding Arabs states, encouraged 'Palestinians' to flee from the new state of Israel [leaving their homes / properties].

Rather than live peaceably in 1948, the surrounding Arab states all attacked Israel.

The Arab nations lost that war.

If today, the 'Palestinian people' can't make peace with Israel....
They should sue the Arab league, for damages, compensation, and a new homeland somewhere in the vast extent of Arab lands.

It was the Arab league, that fostered the 1948 war against Israel.



Jews must not be permitted to live in their ancestral homeland.


What is the root of the word 'Judea'?

Anything to do with 'Jews' perhaps?

Judea is the ancient Jewish homeland.


The Jewish people have as much claim on 'Palestine' as anyone.
.....in my opinion.







THIS IS WHAT ISLAM BRINGS, WHERE EVER IT GOES.
....EVIL






Here is differing view of events, from a different source.

He is an arab....

"......The idea that the Jews forced the Palestinians out is from a well known lie and perversion of history past down by the Arabs who were defeated in 1948 and 1967. It is called "The political influence of tradition", when all the people who fled away and ran across the Jordan River. They left out of fear imposed by the Arab media themselves, who told the Palestinians to leave because the Jews would slaughter them. It was pure Arab propaganda against Israel, which made the Palestinians leave out of fear. One should wonder why EMEU would never blame anything on the Arabs themselves?

The Arab leaders promised the Palestinians that they would soon be able to return following Israel’s destruction. In some cases the Jews, including Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, urged the Arabs to remain, promising that they would not be harmed, (Irving Howe and Carl Gershman, Israel, the Arabs and the Middle East, New York: Bantam, 1972, p. 168) Those who remained became full and equal citizens of Israel, while those who chose to leave went to neighboring Arab states. Instead of welcoming their Arab brothers, and integrating them into the mainstream of their societies, the Arab states kept them in squalid refugee camps. They used these Palestinian refugees as political pawns in their fight against Israel. (See, for instance, The Economist, Oct. 2, 1948, for a description of Jewish efforts in Haifa to persuade the Arabs to stay)

Israel is also blamed for creating the Refugee problem in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The problem however, was created by the Arabs who insisted on keeping the camps; using the Palestinians for political exploitation. In 1982, 65,425 Palestinian refugees were put in camps in Syria, 123,442 in Lebanon, and 192,392 in Jordan. This was reported by UNRWA, while the Arabic propaganda lied and inflated the number to 4,000,000. ALL of them had fled of their own will and without any force......"
http://www.answering-islam.org/Walid/13emeu.htm

I will answer things in my own time thankyou sprint.

once again- you cannot bully other members into answering within your own time frame.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 20^th, 2008 at 12:20am:



Onya is correct, yadda.

I am with Israel. (Can I say that?)

Israel and Palestine are both guilty of the deliberate murdering of innocent people, children included. Support for either side can be said to support terrorism or to be a terrorist sympathiser. I find both the Israeli's and the Palestinian's to be abhorrent, neither deserve support, and neither will get it from me.

Yadda, do you even know what you're saying? Or are you just closing your eyes, throwing anything out there, and then hoping nobody notices?

Quote:


This is just nonsense, in fact most modern day Jordanians are Palestinians, if anything it's the opposite way round. There was neither Palestine nor Jordan prior to the British mandate and later UN partition. The lands were part of the one same nation, so to claim the people are from one entity or the other is just ridiculous, as neither national entity existed. There was no record of immigration between Palestine and Jordan prior to the mandate period, just like today there's probably no record of immigration between Melbourne and Ballarat, because it's not considered immigration when you move to a new city within the same country....

However, once the mandate was brought into effect, immigration records show that 367,845 Jews and 33,304 non-Jews immigrated legally between 1920 and 1945 and It was estimated that another 50–60,000 Jews and a small number of non-Jews immigrated illegally during this period.

Quote:


There's absolutely no evidence at all to suggest there was any noticeable increase in Arab movement to Palestine prior to the mandate. You're speaking nothing but nonsense.

Quote:


Firstly, the accounts of a foreign traveller are hardly credible evidence for population statistics, especially when government census' completely contradict them.

This is what Mark Twain said:
"..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 361-362)

Sounds like a very emperical and objective survey of the land doesn't it? Or peerhaps he just happened to travel along a back road?

You must take into account that only 17% of Palestinian land is arable, so it's no surprise he saw a lot of empty desert, not to mention the fact his visit was in the middle of the summer, when most Arabs would be remaining indoors for a lot of the time. Also his visit was quite brief, and was mostly to visit Biblical ruins...

Also his description of Greece was not much different:

"From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted---a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)

Are you suggesting Greece was 'terra nullius' also? And that any ethnicity could just mass immigrate and take over the country? Because it was a 'land without a people for a people without a land'???

Either way, traveller's tales are certainly not reliable census data. You've just made a fool of yourself with this one.

Quote:


Which considering the world population at the time, wasn't too strange. It was about 0.001% of the world's population, whilst today it is about 0.01%, not bad considering today it is the (unofficial) capital city of a country.

The rest of your post is even less deserving of a reply, the image of the "Arab world" is funny though... Didn't you notice half the countries aren't actually Arab?

tallowood wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 11:13am:


I think you'll find it is in fact the IDF who has deliberately targetted children, unless of course you believe that sniper's shooting children in the head whilst sitting in a class room is another one of those many 'accidents'.

Or lets not forget 13 y.o Imam Al-Hams who's body was riddled with no less then 14 bullets, when wearing her school uniform in clear daylight.

http://www.rense.com/general58/NONE.HTM

And unfortunately this is not an isolated incident.

I am not a supporter of Hamas, and never stated such, yet Soren has openly admitted support for these Israeli murderers.

So who's the terrorist sympathiser and murderer of children Tal?

Lestat wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 11:30am:








Lestat,


Here is the 'rightful' morality of the Jihad, explained, by and ISLAMIST....

There Can Be No End to Jihad'
Islamist Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in an exclusive interview, discusses the rationale for 9/11, the Christians he most respects, and the Jesus he defends.
posted 11/05/2007
....Any weapons are legitimate in jihad. Even animals may be used as "suicide bombers"! It is not restricted by target—even Muslims or children, if used by the enemy as human shields, can be killed.
....Killing women and children never was and never will be part of the jihad in Islam, whether that be the women or children of the Muslims or non-Muslims. So if Chechen mujahedeen killed women and children in Beslan, I would condemn it. The children of non-Muslims, such as those at Beslan, who die in such circumstances go to Paradise.
....Women and children [i.e. boys under 15] or Muslims are not legitimate targets—nor are any noncombatants [clergy, disabled, insane, elderly, etc.]. Not even Israeli children or women, unless they serve in the military, which most do, or live in properties taken from dispossessed Palestinians (Muslim or Christian), which virtually all do.
However, if children are killed, the fault lies with the adult occupiers who brought them into a battlefield situation.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/februaryweb-only/22.0.html


I ask, using the logic which ISLAMISTS wish to die by.....

If it is ISLAMISTS who are bringing muslim children "....into a battlefield situation.", are not the ISLAMISTS then responsible [if children are mistakenly killed]??

When it is ISLAMISTS who are making children co-combatants, and training children as co-combatants???





Whereas, muslim logic would dictate....

"However, if children are killed, the fault lies with..." somebody else of course, with non-muslims.
....never, never, ever, with ISLAM.