Another thread started to cater to an offtopic discussion.
this is like trying to herd cats

Abu replied


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Judaism is the covenant the jews made with god because that is the type of relationship they wanted with god, one of law.

The covenant was made with Abraham (pbuh) before Judaism as we know it even existed. There were very few laws mentioned in the original covenant, they came later. Besides, if you have no laws, you really have no religion. The law vs faith idea is a misunderstanding of modern Christians. The NT says you're not justified by the law, doesn't say to throw it out.

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christianity was the second covenant, just a different and more personal way to relate to the same god.

So why not just make it like that from the start, if it's the correct way? Why make all those people go through all that stuff in the OT, and then bring a whole different religion?

Also, I was never able to accept that the God described in the OT, is the same as the Christian God as defined in the Nicene creed, or even in the NT.

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christianity teaches that all jews still have the old covenant with god, neither covenant is wrong, just that the jews were stubbern and wanted a relationship based on law so god because he loved them gave them what they wanted.

How about Arabs/Muslims? You do realise your own Bible says the covenant was made with Abraham (pbuh) and his son Ishmael (pbuh) right? although it later revoked this, and claimed the covenant was with Isaac (pbuh) only, most likely as the Israelites began to fight more with their  Ishmaelite cousins. They had a habit of slandering and denouncing their tribal enemies in their book.

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no one said god got it wrong.

Actually sprint did.

"The Law" that was intended to reconcile people back to God when they sinned now became a wall.. ..Which was the opposite of what The Law was meant to do.

lestat added

tallowood wrote on Nov 16th, 2008, 12:08am:
the covenant was with Isaac only, Ishmaelites worshipped many other own tribal gods for many centuries after not that I hold it against them as after all The God of Israelites is their tribal god too.

Actually it was with Abrahams 'only' son (at the time). Given that Ishmael by all biblical reports was 7 years older then Isaac, it is impossible that the 'only son' spoken of was Isaac.

I have copied and pasted verious offtopic posts onto other threads for "covenant", "circumcision" and "sacrifices"

It'ld be nice if you all could keep comments reasonably on topic.

take care