NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 12:36pm:



helian,

There is some logic in your words.

Its like those pre-Columbus Europeans....

e.g.
Prior to Columbus discovering the Americas [well, central America anyway] the American continents did not exist, well not for Europeans.

They had no 'conception', of anything outside of their experience [or outside the experience of their fellow travellers, like Marco Polo, who confirmed that, "Yes! China is there!"].


And what is that saying?
....."I think, therefore i am!"

locutius wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:32am:


I think if we're all honest with ourselves, our actual worldview is continuously changing. I don't really like to apply a label to myself, because we're talking about rubbery concepts anyway. If we apply a label, somebody is just going to hijack it and call us something that we're not.

As far as 'God' not being 'out there',  I can actually conceptualise a personality that talks to me and has done all my life. I don't put any religious slant on that.

(OK. A personal question - do you ever have conversations with yourself, or at least an internalised entity? Don't be ashamed about it if you do. It's perfectly natural. It's just when you get to the stage of  wandering around the streets aimlessly, brown bag covered bottle in hand, loudly talking to yourself that it starts to become an issue. At that stage, be ashamed - be very ashamed. )

OK. I'll be first. I talk to myself! (and I also think I'm sane)

I am totally at ease with that, because I think it's just a consequence of having a primitive brain and a somewhat more advanced cerebral cortex. The primitive brain gets a quick and dirty impression of the world, and the cerebral cortex gets the detailed picture a little bit later.  

That's my personal view and I consider the whole process to be totally awesome, but at the same time, I respect and empathise with the views of others.

I believe there's a hob goblin in that room.
No there isn't!
Well there is one way to check -  Let's have a look and see.
- Ha! just as I suspected - a hob goblin.
- That's not a hob goblin - It's a pug.
- This is what I call a hob goblin. It happens to correspond with my internalised concept of the term "hob goblin".  You can call it a pug if you like.

(mutters to self) - You're wrong though: It is a hob goblin.

muso wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 9:47am:


I agree about labels muso, that's why I don't begin a conversation by labeling myself but I do use them not as a badge but as a honest way to possibly clarify were my position lies as part of a conversation with someone. This backfired with FD recently as he decided it was an invitation for a pissweak cheapshot that deliberately misrepresented the label I had applied to myself but probably had his desired effect that I couldn't be bothered continuing the conversation. I can't say leasson learned because I will continue to use labels as a tool for clarification if needed, I'll just use them with people that are sensible or gracess enough to appreciate it.

I can't possibly use one label to describe myself because I am a complicated creature and the label would need to be an amalgamation of decriptive labels that reflect my assortment of beliefs from religion, to economics, to justice, to law and order, to politics, to science etc etc. Everything I think about will have some type of thought pattern and judgement. it's why I find the negative connotation of the word discrimination hilarious. Discrimination is just another word for choice. I discriminate everyday. I just don't have arbitrary discriminations such as that person is black so they must be bad. I will however use the aquired knowledge to be prepared or have expectations. That person is Sudanese, they have well documented high levels of accepted violence and theft, so as a stranger I will be cautious. I also discriminate between jam or bonox on my crumpets etc etc.

Yes mate, I do talk to myself. Very often when I am assembling an item that the instructions have proven useless. But also while pondering something deep and meaningful or a new insight, or asking questions. So far it has always been me answering back, as far as I know. Well nothing I can identify as a Vincent Price type voice anyway. I do like your explaination about the conflict between base and higher mental activities and have often said to others that this is the fundamental conflict that separates us from becoming true human beings. The ones that do this successfully are so few that they shine though the ages and are given often supernatural status.

Have you ever read Richard Bach's "Illusions" the story of a reluctant Messiah. If you haven't I think you would enjoy it immensly. like Johnathan Livingstone Seagull you could read it in under an hour, but will keep you thinking much longer.

Well said Mozz. You have made the term your own by forwarding the definition that applies to you and still fits the term.

Can I ask you, even though you do not believe do you consider it appropriate to say that you don't know.

I mean, I don't know for sure if there is a God or not, but I am sure that I do not believe in God/s. Oh and I have started reading The Master and Margarita, did you recommend this? Enjoying it anyway.

Ah, maybe it was Jordan that recommended it to me.

Quote:
I'm a little bit that way with movies these days, not everything has to make me think, I just want 2+ hours of escapism. The last movie deep & meaningful I saw was "The Fountain" with Hugh Jackman. Complete shite. Although the 6th millenium space man stuff was pretty cool.

Funny and good philosophy questions can be had with Terry Pratchett. It is laugh out loud stuff. I still remember him describing the coward wizard Rincewind as coming to the aid of his friend "with all the speed of continental drift". I woke my wife up with the GUFFAW that followed that line.

Moved to "A Question of Faith"

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 13^th, 2008 at 10:10am:


Maybe he came to that conclusion after Christmas shopping with his wife. Life is not all suffering. Christmas will be over in less than a month.