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Is Atheism just another religion ? (Read 27479 times)
tallowood
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #210 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:13pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:08pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:06pm:
mozzaok wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:02pm:
Quote:
But belief in non existence is a belief.
-Tallo

I don't believe that. Wink


QED  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Undertand the nuances of the verb 'to believe' grasshopper and the secret of the word game will be revealed unto you.


dickie, how is irlish queen doing tonight? Does she have a shaver yet?




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tallowood
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #211 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:16pm
 
The religious zealotry of militant atheists is becoming apparent.

QED  Grin Grin Grin
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #212 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:19pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:13pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:08pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:06pm:
mozzaok wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:02pm:
Quote:
But belief in non existence is a belief.
-Tallo

I don't believe that. Wink


QED  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Undertand the nuances of the verb 'to believe' grasshopper and the secret of the word game will be revealed unto you.


dickie, how is irlish queen doing tonight? Does she have a shaver yet?

Aw, what's up rady boy... sore butt tonight?
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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tallowood
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #213 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:27pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:13pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:08pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:06pm:
mozzaok wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:02pm:
Quote:
But belief in non existence is a belief.
-Tallo

I don't believe that. Wink


QED  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Undertand the nuances of the verb 'to believe' grasshopper and the secret of the word game will be revealed unto you.


dickie, how is irlish queen doing tonight? Does she have a shaver yet?

Aw, what's up rady boy... sore butt tonight?


Did she spank you on the head, dickie?
Is she  antithetical religionist? Or is she religious atheist?

Like stalin, like mao, like dickie ?  Sad Sad Sad


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Calanen
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #214 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 3:41pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:58pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:54pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:17pm:
Quote:
A German bishop has told his Easter congregation that mass murder and other crimes committed by the Nazis are evidence that atheism is inhumane. His comments have caused outraged among German atheist organizations.


"Without God, everything is permitted."

With this famous quote from Russian writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky, the bishop of the southern Bavarian town of Augsburg wanted to warn his congregation of what he sees as the dangers of atheism.


Atheists killed more then 150 million people just last century.



So? Doesn't mean they had a religion.

The absence of belief is not a belief.



But belief in non existence is a belief.

"Without God, everything is permitted."




No, it's absence of belief.  Otherwise you would say:

- My religion is the anti-unicorn religion, as I do not believe in unicorns;

- My religion is the anti-leprachan religion, as I do not believe in unicorns;

So what you are saying is that everything a person does not believe in, forms the basis of their religious beliefs. So a Christian, is also an anti-Buddha, Yeti, Vishnu, Lord Xenuist as well as being a Christian.

That can't be right, it's not useful either.

Saying that I do not believe in something fanciful is just the absence of a belief in something fanciful. It is not a religion, or anything like a religion.

If people believe in supreme beings that is fine. Not believing in supreme beings makes a lot more sense on the available evidence. The failure to believe in a particular theory about a supreme being is not a religion about the absence of that supreme being.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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tallowood
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #215 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 6:47pm
 
Calanen wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 3:41pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:58pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:54pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:17pm:
Quote:
A German bishop has told his Easter congregation that mass murder and other crimes committed by the Nazis are evidence that atheism is inhumane. His comments have caused outraged among German atheist organizations.


"Without God, everything is permitted."

With this famous quote from Russian writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky, the bishop of the southern Bavarian town of Augsburg wanted to warn his congregation of what he sees as the dangers of atheism.


Atheists killed more then 150 million people just last century.



So? Doesn't mean they had a religion.

The absence of belief is not a belief.



But belief in non existence is a belief.

"Without God, everything is permitted."




No, it's absence of belief.  Otherwise you would say:

- My religion is the anti-unicorn religion, as I do not believe in unicorns;

- My religion is the anti-leprachan religion, as I do not believe in unicorns;

So what you are saying is that everything a person does not believe in, forms the basis of their religious beliefs. So a Christian, is also an anti-Buddha, Yeti, Vishnu, Lord Xenuist as well as being a Christian.

That can't be right, it's not useful either.

Saying that I do not believe in something fanciful is just the absence of a belief in something fanciful. It is not a religion, or anything like a religion.

If people believe in supreme beings that is fine. Not believing in supreme beings makes a lot more sense on the available evidence. The failure to believe in a particular theory about a supreme being is not a religion about the absence of that supreme being.


When people say that they don't believe in a god it's ok by me but when they say that they believe that god does not exist they proclaim their belief.  That is exactly what militant religious atheists do.
We already had the examples of muss murders by Mao and Stalin and have seen that  their religiously atheistic militant followers regarded them as supreme beings courtesy to helian.

Quote:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7th, 2009 at 5:07pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 7th, 2009 at 4:30pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7th, 2009 at 4:15pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 7th, 2009 at 4:10pm:
Both Stalin and Mao became atheists and stay so for the rest of their lives. They committed more murders each then any theist therefore it proves that it is easier to murder people without help of a god not with as you suggested early.

Unless you believe you are a god yourself. Then life and death are your domain.

Collectively far more have died at the hands of theists than atheists.



Got statistics? Preferably compartmentalised by religion.
Till then atheists seems to be the record holders as far as number of murders per capita or a number of murders per unit of time or a number of murders per murderer, which proves that it is easier to murder people without help of a god not with as you suggested early.

Yes, though having arrogated god-authority to themselves, their colonels could act under the command of a quasi-god and destroy all whom god hates.



As for unicorns you are wrong ... I would not say that because unicorns exist  Wink

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #216 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:14pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 6:47pm:
When people say that they don't believe in a god it's ok by me but when they say that they believe that god does not exist they proclaim their belief.  That is exactly what militant religious atheists do.
We already had the examples of muss murders by Mao and Stalin and have seen that  their religiously atheistic militant followers regarded them as supreme beings courtesy to helian.

Their atheism was incidental to their crimes... Their need was power... no different to European Monarchs until about the 18th century. The German Princes in Luther's time used Luther's theology to wrest power from the Popes and vest it in themselves.

Power and greed drive crime not disbelief in god.
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« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:41pm by NorthOfNorth »  

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mozzaok
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #217 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:56pm
 
Tallo, you are the one who introduced the assertion that atheism was the determining factor behind the genocidal atrocities of some regimes, yet when challenged to provide any argument, or evidence to support that contention, you instead revert to obsessing about trivialities.

Do you accept that your contention has no basis in fact, or do you wish to defend that claim.

As they say in the classics, it may be time to "put up, or shut up".

Evasion and diversion will naturally be considered as you deciding to fly the white flag, instead of defending your idea.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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tallowood
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #218 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:09pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:14pm:
[quote author=tallowood link=1227225058/210#215 date=1239871666]
Power and greed drive crime not disbelief in god.


The same can be said about belief in a god.


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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #219 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:19pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:09pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:14pm:
[quote author=tallowood link=1227225058/210#215 date=1239871666]
Power and greed drive crime not disbelief in god.


The same can be said about belief in a god.



Can be, although many have been killed by believers in the name of a god.
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tallowood
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #220 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:33pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:09pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:14pm:
[quote author=tallowood link=1227225058/210#215 date=1239871666]
Power and greed drive crime not disbelief in god.


The same can be said about belief in a god.


Can be, although many have been killed by believers in the name of a god.


History reminds us that many more were killed by believers in god non existence.



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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #221 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:49pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:33pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:09pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:14pm:
[quote author=tallowood link=1227225058/210#215 date=1239871666]
Power and greed drive crime not disbelief in god.


The same can be said about belief in a god.


Can be, although many have been killed by believers in the name of a god.


History reminds us that many more were killed by believers in god non existence.

The few monster despots of the 20th century had mass killing technology at their disposal. Despotic believers who killed or ordered the killing of as many as they could physically manage, outnumber those who did not believe in god. The Crusaders, for example, were fanatical killers for Christ... had they had modern weaponry they would probably easily have out-killed Stalin and Mao - they'd have killed everyone Jew, Muslim, Christian. The Popes with modern weapons would have levelled Protestant Europe - killed every Protestant and burnt their lands to a cinder. As it was the Popes had excommunicated entire nations and condemned every Protestant to the fires of Hell, thus in their minds condemning them on earth to whatever evil descended upon them. Their armies armies warred with Protestants for centuries in Europe. The Conquistadors in the new world were no slouches either... and Martin Luther would have happily been an Adolf Hitler given temporal power and the means for mass destruction.
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Yadda
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #222 - Apr 17th, 2009 at 11:12am
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 6:47pm:

When people say that they don't believe in a god it's ok by me but when they say that they believe that god does not exist they proclaim their belief.






As per the definition of the word 'atheism', in a.....

Dictionary,
atheism = = the
theory
or
belief
that God does not exist.



Grin

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #223 - Apr 17th, 2009 at 11:17am
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 17th, 2009 at 11:12am:
tallowood wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 6:47pm:

When people say that they don't believe in a god it's ok by me but when they say that they believe that god does not exist they proclaim their belief.






As per the definition of the word 'atheist', in a.....

Dictionary,
atheism = = the
theory
or
belief
that God does not exist.






Let's not continue talking at cross purposes within a word game.

If I believe that the bus will arrive in 15 minutes, I am not making a religious statement.

The verb 'to believe' does not in and of itself necessarily describe a religious conviction of the subject. In most use cases of the term it has nothing to do with religion.
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Yadda
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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #224 - Apr 17th, 2009 at 11:27am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:14pm:
.....
Power and greed drive crime not disbelief in god.





helian,

Thank you!          Wink


Let me rephrase what you just said there....

Power and greed drive crime not disbelief belief in god.



i.e.
Men do wicked, and evil things, FOR, OR DRIVEN BY, THEIR OWN MOTIVES.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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