Australian Politics Forum - Is Atheism just another religion ?

tallowood

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #90 - Nov 28^th, 2008 at 10:06pm

muso wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 8:24pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 2:41pm:

Interestingly enough the same statistical parameters measured in atheistic USSR showed even more disturbing picture. So there was apparently even more positive correlation between fundamentalist atheism and the markers of social dysfunction.

Of course I don't imply in any way that the faith in god's non-existence was the reason for that behavioural pattern.

PS: muso kai is another religion too. sounds noice, but there is no statistics for it yet.

Tallow - re that last remark, I'm going to call you a

dag

. You can interpret that as a very mild personal attack if you like, but you're probably proud of it anyway, knowing you. Grin

I already told you that muso kai is just a principle from Zen Buddhism, and I just said that I found it useful as a concept. You could no more say that muso kai is a religion than the practice of swinging the smoke censer in a church. It's just a precept from a religion. (you dag)

Now as for the USSR, I'll check my original source. You can check it too - it's a Christian source as far as I'm aware, so you can't accuse me of taking the data from a biased source (LOL):

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Russia doesn't seem to be in that study, but Sweden is, and Sweden is possibly (edit - definitely)more atheistic than Russia.

I know my source of information. Could I have yours please?
(Good try anyway)

Russia to USSR is the same as muzo kai to Buddhism the difference however is that USSR does not exist therefore if Russia ==USSR as you imply then muzo kai is just another religion Cheesy

I have seen the statistics for USSR in the library of NSW in Sydney in the book "Soviet Political Society" but it was not in digital format so to check it for yourself you will need to go to the library when you are in Sydney next time.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #91 - Nov 28^th, 2008 at 10:54pm

tallowood wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 10:06pm:

Russia to USSR is the same as muzo kai to Buddhism the difference however is that USSR does not exist therefore if Russia ==USSR as you imply then muzo kai is just another religion Cheesy

I just had this sudden flash of inspiration - A thread with the dumbest things people have ever said on Australian Politics Forum. Do you think it might work?

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #92 - Nov 28^th, 2008 at 11:31pm Go for it!
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tallowood

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #93 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 8:07am

muso wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 10:54pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 10:06pm:

Russia to USSR is the same as muzo kai to Buddhism the difference however is that USSR does not exist therefore if Russia ==USSR as you imply then muzo kai is just another religion Cheesy

I just had this sudden flash of inspiration - A thread with the dumbest things people have ever said on Australian Politics Forum. Do you think it might work?

We already have Environment sub forum full of that but I will play the game.
Ready? here it is below:

Atheism is not a religion .

Cheesy

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #94 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:07am How do you define Atheism?
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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #95 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:11am muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:07am: How do you define Atheism? /dumb mod off Another religion
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #96 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:04am tallowood wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:11am: muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:07am: How do you define Atheism? /dumb mod off Another religion Well according to that definition you are correct. I hereby define black to mean white.
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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #97 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:10am muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:04am: tallowood wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:11am: muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:07am: How do you define Atheism? /dumb mod off Another religion Well according to that definition you are correct. I hereby define black to mean white. What is grey?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #98 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:31am

tallowood wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:10am:

muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:04am:

tallowood wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:11am:

muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:07am:

How do you define Atheism?

/dumb mod off

Another religion Cheesy

Well according to that definition you are correct.

I hereby define black to mean white.

What is grey?

Another colour

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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tallowood

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #99 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:49am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:31am:

tallowood wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:10am:

muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 10:04am:

tallowood wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:11am:

muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 9:07am:

How do you define Atheism?

/dumb mod off

Another religion Cheesy

Well according to that definition you are correct.

I hereby define black to mean white.

What is grey?

Another colour

it is #808080
Guess what are #000000 and #FFFFFF

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #100 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 12:07pm HTML hex color codes
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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #101 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 1:28pm

muso wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 8:24pm:

Yadda,

Don't you think it's a problem that you could define just about anything by that second definition [of 'religion']:

2 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

So horse racing or stamp collecting are religions?

Why do you think that a simple lack of belief in deities could be construed as a religion? It's not a pursuit, it's not even an interest and it is rarely followed with devotion....

muso,

Whether we recognise it or not, we are all seeking TRUTH, 'reality', the meaning of life, are we not?

[Well some of us imagine we are, anyway.]

The Bible / God / Jesus suggests that our [human] fault, is that man is so easily engrossed in, and with this world.

The suggestion is that we have all become [almost exclusively] carnal creatures, instead of [also?] meditative creatures.

We have 'killed' [the idea of] God, and have come to 'worship' the creation, and not the creator.

And without [or with very little] meditation on God, we learn to do that which is carnally pleasing, irrespective of whether or not it is 'moral'.

And that is the point.

We are on the wrong path, but so often, "....if it feels good", we don't care.

So, we are on the wrong path, but we don't care.

And we don't care, because we are on the wrong path.

Unless we [mankind] seek God, we cannot know him.

And if we do not know him, we cannot be led by him [by his spirit].

And instead, we will do that which is right in our own eyes.

And that is where we all are today.

God is 'dead' in our hearts, and look at this [God-less] world, which we are responsible for.

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Deuteronomy 4:28
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The Preacher speaks here, of the days of men's lives, here in this life...

Ecclesiastes 3:10
I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #102 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 2:34pm

Quote:

Deuteronomy 4:28
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deuteronomy is interesting. Do you also like these verses?

2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

Shades of Islam there.

3:3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. (3:3-6)
3:4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
3:5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

Pretty violent stuff, don't you think, but it comes with a few health benefits:

7:14 Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
7:15 And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
7:16 And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them : neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.

Sounds pretty cool - nobody gets sick or infertile.

10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

I've heard that this can happen to older people if a Viagra tablet gets stuck in their throat.

By the way, some interesting information on how to treat Muslims:

12:2 Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:

12:3 And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.

Shades of Afghanistan, the Taliban, the Buddhas of Bamiyan and some high explosives.

12:27 And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.

It seems a bit gory. I didn't realise Christians still did this. Is that bit still relevant? I mean - is being a vegetarian consistent with Christianity? Put it this way, how do you tell if the passage you quoted from Deuteronomy was still relevant? Do you have some kind of Holy Document control page that says - stop with the sacrifices, don't stone the homos and don't sell your daughters into slavery for any price - these are no longer applicable - signed Jehov.

14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Hold on to that monobrow!

I would read some more, but as a pacifist and a vegetarian, I get a bit nauseated by all the tales of destruction in that book that are sanctioned by your God.

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« Last Edit: Nov 29^th, 2008 at 2:46pm by muso »

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #103 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 2:55pm How long ago was that?
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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #104 - Nov 29^th, 2008 at 3:49pm

muso wrote on Nov 29^th, 2008 at 2:34pm:

Quote:

Deuteronomy 4:28
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deuteronomy is interesting. Do you also like these verses?

2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

etc, etc, etc.

muso,

Don't you know, that God is righteous, in all the things that he does?

Preceding your Deuteronomy 2:33 passage.....

Deuteronomy 2:26
And I sent messengers out of the wilderness of Kedemoth unto Sihon king of Heshbon with words of peace, saying,
27 Let me pass through thy land: I will go along by the high way, I will neither turn unto the right hand nor to the left.
28 Thou shalt sell me meat for money, that I may eat; and give me water for money, that I may drink: only I will pass through on my feet;
29 (As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me;) until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the LORD our God giveth us.
30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
31 And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land.
32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz.

33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

The children of Israel were used by God, to destroy the people of the land, which they [The children of Israel] went in to possess.

Those people were destroyed, not because of their innocence, but because of their great wickedness.

And the children of Israel were a witness against those ppl, and their wickedness.

And the fate of those nations, was intended to be a warning, against the un-godly.

We are those same ppl.

In our earthen bodies, we 'possess' God's 'promised' land,
....and we defile it, by our wickedness.

Do you think we can resist, and defy, God?

Why of course we can!, because there is no God.

God is dead.
/sarc off

We do what is right, in our own eyes.

Isaiah 43:8
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

Isaiah 44:1
Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.
5 One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Psalms 135:4
For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

God is just.

And we [men] are fools.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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