"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...."
Hosea


easel asks,

Quote:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1227973317/14#14



+++++++


easel,

Let me 1st ask you this Q.

Why do we have to seek advise from others, to answer to such questions [as you ask]?

Why do we think that such questions are difficult?

I suggest, that if we are whole human beings, we should all know how to answer such [moral] questions.

Q.
And, why don't we?




NOW, THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS [above]....

To answer such a question ["Is self defence ok?"] with certainty, 1st you need to remove yourself from the question / situation.

And to substitute into the equation, in your place, a '3rd [neutral] person'.

Now, ask the question again.

If an innocent [perhaps weak and vulnerable] person was clearly being attacked, assaulted, or threatened with death, by an 'evil doer',
.....in seeking to protect the 'victim', do you have the moral authority to defend the weaker person, and 'attack' the attacker[s]?

i.e.
If a woman on a public street was being attacked by two men, [if you are brave enough] do you have the moral authority to 'attack' the attacker[s]?

Answer the question above.

Now, that you have the answer, re substitute yourself into the situation / equation.

"Is self defence ok?"

Of course it is.

The moral answer to your questions [above], no matter who the victim is, is always the same.






Now, a caveat.

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19  Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.



The only proviso is [in self defence], you must act with a clean heart, you must act as a moral person, would act.

Because we must never use such violence, with any evil intent, or for gain, or with malice, or with artifice, or with guile.

Everything you do, you must do, as though God himself is standing right beside you, and knows the motivation which is in your heart.

And if the motivation or intent is evil, do not act.

Is violence wrong?

Yes.

Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

Is it wicked, to defend yourself, or others from violence, and evil?

No.

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.



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easel,

HERE IS ANOTHER VERY DIFFICULT Q. FOR YOU....

Q.
Should we [the West] fight ISLAM?

OR, should we submit to ISLAM?





Let me simplify the Q. even further for you....

Should we submit to EVIL?

Err, do you know the correct answer?

It is very clear, that many ppl don't!



IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE QUESTIONS [above],
...i make this argument to you,

And i ask you this,
....Why are so few people in Western nations willing to confront an evil philosophy like ISLAM?

And why has ISLAM been so successful at making inroads into Western nations, subverting non-muslim political and community institutions and community values?

I myself will suggest an answer,

It is because muslims believe [in their moral position], and because we in the West [as a culture] don't believe,
....in anything!
....[except personal consumption, and pursuing our own personal pleasure.]

And for God's sake, woe betide anyone who confronts us, with our moral 'apostasy'!!

Dictionary,
apostasy = = the abandonment or renunciation of a belief *or principle*.




And, i am quite sure, that we [the West] will not win this war [which ISLAM is waging against us], because we are an amoral people,
....and, we don't care, that we are amoral.



Dictionary,
amoral = = lacking a moral sense; unconcerned whether something is right or wrong.

And, we won't win this war because,
...we hate the TRUTH.
...we hate the TRUTH.
...we hate the TRUTH.

Why can't we as a ppl, understand those words?

If you know the Bible at all well, you will understand that God often uses those who are evil, to destroy [punish] those who [claim to be godly but] are amoral, and self righteous.

And that is what is happening in the world, right now.




MORE......

Thanks Yadda. That was wonderful.

Yes if I saw someone getting attacked I would, and have in the past, go and help them.

Therefore self defence is justified.

What about revenge though, is that wrong? What about if you don't feel anger or malice, but just want to even up the scales? What do you think? I don't have the Biblical knowledge that you do.

Ok, but taking the path of least resistance, as Jesus did, would be to roll over and 'turn the other cheek'. Why should we not do this?