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Yadda

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"....all religion should be - the practise of comp
Dec 23^rd, 2008 at 10:32am

helian said,

Quote:

"....all religion should be - the practise of compassion."

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1214199336/54#54

Compassion?

For what, or for who?

We are such a 'compassionate' society today, it makes me vomit sometimes.

Don't get me wrong, i am all for compassion, with discernment.

But today, is there any discernment in our societies, on who compassion should fall upon?

Does this assume that the God that you imagine, if he exists, will carte blanche, be all forgiving, and full of compassion, for all persons?

Do you think so? Cheesy

Shouldn't it be, and isn't it imperative, that compassion should be based on justice [....even! justice for the victim]?

And isn't compassion for victims important, by seeking [endorsing] the judgement of those who are evil doers?

Shouldn't our desire for compassion, be based on our repulsion of evil and wickedness?

Just some thoughts.

John 8:2
And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus had compassion on the woman [above], but he also admonished her,
....'and sin no more.'

Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Jesus' use of "hypocrite" in this verse above, is "hupokrites" {hoop-ok-ree-tace'} meaning an actor, stage player, a dissembler, pretender.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Jeremiah 9:24
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Can not compassion, also be regarded as opposing the oppressor, and opposing those who do evil?
.....i.e. shouldn't society, defend the innocent, by executing judgement against those who are doing evil ?

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood.

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

Thomas Mann
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Mann

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of comp
Reply #1 - Dec 23^rd, 2008 at 11:02am

Yadda wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2008 at 10:32am:

helian said,

Quote:

"....all religion should be - the practise of compassion."

Speaking for god now Yadda?

Try a bit of Luke 6 27:41

Conviction is the art of being certain

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mozzaok

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of comp
Reply #2 - Dec 23^rd, 2008 at 11:11am

I have to agree with Helian here.

Yadda speaks of judgement, and wishes to show that acts of evil deserve to receive harsh judgement.

He fails to separate the act from the person, which would seem to bring into question the religious view, that redemption is not beyond anyone.

Are Yaddas' views a fair reflection of christian values?

I am sure a good christian could find numerous verses in his bible to counter the ones yadda posted, as ever, it is a matter of perspective, and which one you choose.

Religion can be very convenient like that, if you look, you are bound to be able to find something in your holy book, to use as justification for whatever you want.

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of comp
Reply #3 - Dec 23^rd, 2008 at 11:20am

The truth is that the complete practice of a theology of compassion - which is what Christianity purports to be - is really hard... As is Buddhism when practised properly.

Adherents think they can water down the bits they don't like, or reject them entirely... but the fact is that if you truly practise Christianity, your goal is to become Christ-like i.e. all compassionate, all forgiving, renouncing violence... easy to say, really hard to achieve.

Conviction is the art of being certain

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Yadda

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of
Reply #4 - Dec 24^th, 2008 at 8:18am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2008 at 11:20am:

The truth is that the complete practice of a theology of compassion - which is what Christianity purports to be - is really hard... As is Buddhism when practised properly.

Adherents think they can water down the bits they don't like, or reject them entirely... but the fact is that if you truly practise Christianity, your goal is to become Christ-like i.e. all compassionate, all forgiving, renouncing violence... easy to say, really hard to achieve.

helian,

I agree with what you say here.

And, we should try to judge ourselves [our own motives, and our own actions] more so, than others.

BUT, helian, BUT,

When we ourselves refuse to use proper discernment, when we ignore evil around us, we become a part of that evil.

Our personal responsibility, extends to what we allow.
....[this is maybe not part of your philosophy of life, but i believe this.]

Quote:

Speaking for god now Yadda?

As for 'speaking for God', you yourself acknowledged that a Christian duty, is to try to become more Christ-like.

I believe we have a life here, and an opportunity to judge ourselves,
.....and that then there will be a judgement [of us] by God.

Consider
Men have set judges up, on earth, to judge evil doers among us.
....and if both we and our judges lose discernment of what is good or evil?

What then?

What sort of society will develop, where there is no discernment between good or evil?

This following rebuke from God, came upon the ppl [the Jews] of ancient Jerusalem.

And as we approach Christmas day, all those who consider themselves to be God's ppl, would do well to reflect on these words...

Isaiah 1:10
Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

".....Zion shall be redeemed with judgment,"

« Last Edit: Dec 24^th, 2008 at 8:28am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of comp
Reply #5 - Dec 24^th, 2008 at 8:25am

Today, it seems that we [society] have no desire to exercise any discernment, we have no desire to choose between things which are right or wrong, good or evil.

Why is that?

Yet within my philosophy of life, i have come to believe that, that, is precisely why we are placed here.
i.e. .....we come to live this life, to use our discernment, and to make our choices [about things which we deem are right or wrong, good or evil].
....to demonstrate what kind of discernment, if any we have.

Isaiah 7:10
Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

These words of Deuteronomy [below] were spoken to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Israel [and the Jews], are used, within the O T Bible, as an analogy for all mankind.

The children of Israel [and the Jews] have served God, as his witnesses [as an example] against mankind, in this world....

Isaiah 43:10
Ye [Israel] are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Each of us comes here [to this life] to travel a personal journey, to suffer, to be tested by affliction, and to excercise our choices, day by day.

Dictionary,
afflict = = cause pain or suffering to.

Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee [Israel], but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

"....I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil."

We are the ones who choose, day by day.

Then one day, the choices stop.

And we have no excuse, because [it is 'hard wired' within us] we all understand very well, [in our dealings with our fellow man] what is good, and what is evil.

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good - need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"
Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance
Robert M Pirsig

All of this evil today, is coming upon us, because we have become [collectively] a wicked ppl, and because we have come to a dark spiritual 'place', where we are happy to embrace that which is evil.

And where better to embrace evil, than in the darkness?

If we wish to stay this evil, as a nation, and as individuals, we must again embrace TRUTH in our dealings.

With free and open TRUTH, comes justice.

With justice comes peace.

Its not rocket science.

But man is so 'clever',
....he knows a better way than TRUTH.
/sarc off

Mankind's way, is Cain's way.

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

Thomas Mann
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Mann

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Jim Profit

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of
Reply #6 - Jan 20^th, 2009 at 9:19pm

There is nothing to be gained by "compassion" but more bloodshed. Hatred kills individuals, love kills colonies... There is a far greater evil then war, slavery, or opppression. It is called altruism! The seed in which all these things and more are planted...

Whenever anyone wants others to do their work they call upon their altruism. "Never mind your own needs", they say, "Think of the needs of... others... Of the state. Of the poor. Of the Army, of the King. Of God."

The list goes on and on. How many catastrophes were launched with the words "Think of yourself?" It's the king and country crowd who light the torch of destruction!

I have no moral disdain for serial killers, if that improves their fitness in life. It is up to those who wish to practice what they believe to be right to defend it. If you can't defend it, then it's not worth having now is it?

But to expect others, others who may disagree with you or even hate you to protect them for you. Is just peverse.. It is by calling upon altruism you expect me, to defend you, "for the sake of all that is righteouss". A liberal activist, picketing the inhumane treatment of prisoners is no different in my eyes then the priest on the podium, condemning homosexuals.

They both expect me to do their job for them. Go out and complete your divine mission yourself you lazy prick.

I suppose I'd be willing to help if I was given an incentive. Money, power, "a favor".. But then this is no longer altruism, but free trade.

But I still believe there's something left for you and me.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: "....all religion should be - the practise of comp
Reply #7 - Jan 20^th, 2009 at 9:49pm

Jim - that's a thing I have thought.
Being alturistic is not at all a bad thing.
In many ways, everyone is alturistic.

By being alturistic I am headed for what is best for me.
Everyone else can get lost.

What's best for me if I am in society which is happy, peaceful, affluent, artistic.
How can i best help to achieve that ?

For me, of course ...........

Modern Classic Right Wing

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