Australian Politics Forum - Islamic immigration

easel

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #90 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:18pm

Wrong. It says more that there are people who have gained positions of power who are against occupation by forces deemed hostile and contradictory to their preferred way of life.

Going back to WW2 now, French resistance, were they horrible people for resisting occupying forces? What about East Timorese resistance networks who fought against Indonesian occupation?

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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Islamic immigration Reply #91 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:23pm Not sure who you are talking to... but... The Gaza strip wasn't occupied. Yet Hamas have sent tens thousand+ missiles into civilian israel for the past 8 years.
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Amadd

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #92 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:24pm

Quote:

Did you ever bother to look for it?

Gaybriel is a non-Muslim Aussie like yourself, so was I once upon a time, and we were both able to find out about these facts. I guess it depends upon the intentions of the individual.

Yes I've bothered to look and I mostly see attitudes such as yours. You put your belief in a foreign law above Australian law.
It's not like I've never heard a muslim denounce terrorism, but many of those who do are not considered true muslims by the [mod:

inappropriate comment

]
I've never seen you denounce terrorist acts, I've only seen you spread your apologist views and try to give reason to acts that can never have reason.

I think it would be a pretty common view to most Australians that we don't want people with these types of attitudes being brought into our country. It's nothing to do with religion, non-religion, race, etc., it's just a common democratic view.

Question :

If a Muslim eats or drinks with a Christian or any kaafir, is that considered to be haraam?

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Eating with a kaafir is not haraam if it is necessary to do so, or if that serves some shar’i interest.
But they should not be taken as friends, so you should not eat with them for no shar’i reason or for no shar’i purpose. You should not sit and chat with them and laugh with them. But if there is a reason to do so, such as eating with a guest, or to invite them to Islam or to guide them to the truth, or for some other shar’i reason, then it is OK.
The fact that the food of the People of the Book is halaal for us does not mean that we have to take them as friends and companions. It does not mean that we should eat and drink with them for no reason and for no purpose.
And Allaah is the source of strength.

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2009 at 4:19am by abu_rashid »

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #93 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 4:18am

Quote:

I've never seen you denounce terrorist acts

That's right, I flat out refuse to condemn acts committed by Muslims. And I'm under absolutely no obligation to either, neither by Australian law, nor by moral principles. Why should I rush to condemn something I didn't do, didn't have any control over etc. Am I somehow guilty by association for it, and therefore must seperate myself from it? what a load of crap. I don't see you condemning any of the violent excesses of the West against Muslims, in fact you've stated you think Muslims should be eradicated....

Quote:

it's just a common democratic view.

There's nothing in democracy that says people can't have difference of opinoin, and even believe in other government systems.

If anything is anti-Democratic here, it is your wish for Muslims to be eradicated.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Islamic immigration Reply #94 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 4:35am oh dear... lost the plot... Funny we are supposed to condemn things we don't do yet he is under NO obligation to. ROTFLMAO Muslim madness... is there no end to it?
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freediver

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #95 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:38am

Calanen wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 10:54pm:

Quote:

So which police force do you think has terrorist sympathies?

Pakistani would be my bet. Also many of the Afghani police and Iraqi police cannot be trusted either.

Given that the Afghani and Iraqi police are targets of terrorist attacks and are working for the new government, I find that hard to believe. Pakistan would be in a similar situation.

Quote:

nor by moral principles. Why should I rush to condemn something I didn't do, didn't have any control over etc. Am I somehow guilty by association for it

We don't condemn it because we feel guilty, we condemn it because it is wrong and evil. You on the other hand have said it is both justified and necessary on the other thread.

What moral principle says you should not speak out against evil?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Lestat

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #96 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:55am

freediver wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:38am:

We don't condemn it because we feel guilty, we condemn it because it is wrong and evil. You on the other hand have said it is both justified and necessary on the other thread.

But you don't condemn it...you pathetically attempt to justify it. Look no further then the hundreds of woman and children in Gaza killed by Israeli terrorists.

You don't condemn these murders...on the contrary, you attempt to justify them by blaming the victims.

Perhaps you should try to practise what you preach for once in your life.

freediver wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:38am:

What moral principle says you should not speak out against evil?

Really...this is a question you should be asking yourself.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Islamic immigration Reply #97 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:01am The attacks are not justified. The palestinians should stop lobbing rockets from the top of residential buildings, causing their destruction. Surely they would have figured it out by now.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #98 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:10am

freediver,

Quote:

You on the other hand have said it is both justified and necessary on the other thread

Actually I never said those things at all. Don't let yourself get tripped up by facts though. You rarely recount what I say accurately anyway. You've shown this time and time again.

Quote:

What moral principle says you should not speak out against evil?

There are evils going in all over this world, I don't see you speaking out against all of them. In fact as Lestat noted above, you actually try to justify and belittle some of them, such as the murder of Palestinian civilians.

I consider the actions of the Zionists to be some of the greatest evils happening today, yet you think they're quite justified and legitimate actions. This is a difference of opinion. But your viewpoint is much closer to support for evil than mine is, as I've never stated I think killing civilians is justified, you have.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #99 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:13am

Western civilians killed:
Freediver: The people who did this are evil, there's no justification, everyone should unconditionally condemn them and is morally obligated to do so.

Palestinian civilians killed:
Freediver: Stop lobbing rockets from civilian-occupied buildings (an accusation merely propagated by the killers of the civilians themselves).

See the difference? Or are your blinkers permanently sewn onto your temples?

Do you give the killers of Western civilians excuses and justifications as much weight as you give to the killers of Palestinian civilians justifications?

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Islamic immigration Reply #100 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:19am The hamas rockets for the past two years - who were they meant to hit? Civilians. They were meant for civilians. Only. No israeli fire is meant for civilians. None. That's the difference.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #101 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:32am

If that were the case, then the Zionists are pretty bad shots....

Cos they've killed hundreds of thousands of civilians over the years...

But I don't think even you're gullible enough to believe that one of the most technologically advanced militaries on earth is that capable of having so many bad shots...

The fact is they know most of the time their fire is going to hit civilians, they simply don't care, apart from the fact it might lose them some international support, hence the highly paid spin doctors they now hire. Not just that, but for the past 60 years, they've consistently been hitting civilians, bulldozing their homes, mass deporting them to other countries, commandeering their homes, sometimes just to watch sporting matches etc. This is all well documented, by their own former members.

Only those who choose to remain blind, do so. Quite ironic considering all your rhetoric about free thinking, logic, rational thought etc.

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mozzaok

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #102 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:43am

Instead of just continuing with attaching blame, do you have any constructive ideas for a peaceful resolution to this conflict Abu?

For the sake of reality, exclude the option of Islam eradicating jews from the planet, or Israel.

So, the two state option, mentioned by Grendel, where Israel gets gaza, and palestine gets the west bank, how do you think palestinians would react to that proposal?

Do you know of any other two state alternatives?

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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freediver

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #103 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:47am

Quote:

Actually I never said those things at all. Don't let yourself get tripped up by facts though.

Right. What you actually said was:

Quote:

If a decent Shari'ah implementing state existed that had prevented oil sales to the enemies fighting against Islam, then there'd be no need for 'terrorist groups',

Quote:

Perhaps need was not the best choice of words. What I mean is they'd have no justification

Quote:

Freediver: Stop lobbing rockets from civilian-occupied buildings (an accusation merely propagated by the killers of the civilians themselves).

Here we see more shameless propaganda from the Associated Press purporting to show Hamas firing rockets while positioned among civilians. Only those who blindly back Israel could see apartment buildings in that picture.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: Islamic immigration
Reply #104 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 10:16am

mozzaok wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:43am:

Instead of just continuing with attaching blame, do you have any constructive ideas for a peaceful resolution to this conflict Abu?

For the sake of reality, exclude the option of Islam eradicating jews from the planet, or Israel.

There's the snag. Reality be damned if it means accepting israel's right to exist. They can't be both devout Mohamedan and accept Israel. The'll sooner have a ham sandwich. Even the joos will have a ham sandwich before the Mohamedans accept Israel.

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