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freediver

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Human shields
Jan 11^th, 2009 at 7:35pm

This issue keeps coming up in the Israel vs Palestine debate, for example here:

According to Abu, if you hide behind women and children in order to fire at your enemy, your enemy is prohited by international law from firing back.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1230901537/120#120

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 6:46pm:

Quote:

This is just getting stupid Abu. You can't launch rockets at Israel and complain that their response is illegal.

Is it allowed by international law and conventions of war to attack densely populated civilian areas, just because the enemy is amongst them? Please answer, instead of throwing off.

Quote:

What convention forbids a country from taking out people who are launching rockets?

But they're taking out mostly civilians, not fighters.

Anyway, it's obviously fruitless arguing with you, after all,

Comments?

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Human shields Reply #1 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 7:46pm Quote: According to Abu, if you hide behind women and children in order to fire at your enemy, your enemy is prohited by international law from firing back. Please stop lying freediver. If you have a quote of me saying this, use the quote, don't paraphrase me with this kind of crap. You only make yourself look dishonest.
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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: Human shields Reply #2 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 8:34pm Hamas calls children to cover a place where a missile strike is going to occur, after the Israelis give them 5 minutes to clear out before they flatten the building. The response of Hamas - let's get the kids on the roof of the building.
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freediver

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Re: Human shields
Reply #3 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 9:09pm

I did quote you Abu. Do you still think that it is a violation of international law to take out the Muslims launching rockets because they are on top of an appartment bilding?

freediver wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:47am:

Here we see more shameless propaganda from the Associated Press purporting to show Hamas firing rockets while positioned among civilians. Only those who blindly back Israel could see apartment buildings in that picture.

Calanen wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 7:10pm:

Hamas admits they use human shields.

As to your other stuff Abu, you can try to use our democracy to destroy our democracy. And say it is unfair that people like me wont let you.

But I won't let you. You think Hamas is tough in the defence of Gaza. Wait till you see the Australian community wake up.

And I'm cranking up the alarm clock right now. Wait until my book comes out. It will be a cracker.

Calanen wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 7:03pm:

Quote:

Hamas do NOT hide behind women and children, please stop repeating the same old propaganda line that the Zionist media has incited you to parrot. Repetition does not necessarily strengthen an argument.

LOLZERS

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4531/hamasciviliansov0.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2620/hamascowardsym8.jpg

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=971_1230895360

Hamas gunmen roughly using kids as human shields. Good one fellas!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=971_1230895360

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« Last Edit: Jan 11^th, 2009 at 9:20pm by freediver »

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abu_rashid

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Re: Human shields
Reply #4 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 10:30pm

Calanen,

Quote:

Hamas calls children to cover a place where a missile strike is going to occur, after the Israelis give them 5 minutes to clear out before they flatten the building.

The response of Hamas - let's get the kids on the roof of the building.

Sounds like the people went willingly to me. And your phrase "calls children" is a little misleading don't you think? The citizens of Gaza know they're going to get hit anyway, so why not do it defending their homes... What is in that video is not a case of Hamas using human shields at all, it's a case of the brave Ghazan people going to any length possible to defend themselves and their homes. Unlike the coward Zionists who flee at the first sound of a Hamas rocket.

freediver,

Quote:

Do you still think that it is a violation of international law to take out the Muslims launching rockets because they are on top of an appartment bilding?

Firstly the picture does not show that rockets are being fired from the rooftop of an apartment. So your whole argument is out the window. It just shows it's being fired from within the city... how do you know what that building is? It's certainly not clear to me from the picture.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Human shields Reply #5 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 10:43pm Brave... look like they are cowering and confused to me. just shows how self-deluded you are Abu. As for the idiots of Hamas with weapons... why would you give an idiot macho man a weapon?
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freediver

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Re: Human shields
Reply #6 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 10:59pm

Quote:

Firstly the picture does not show that rockets are being fired from the rooftop of an apartment. So your whole argument is out the window.

It was a question Abu, not an argument. You are really stretching for deflections these days. Here, I'll repeat the question for you:

Do you still think that it is a violation of international law to take out the Muslims launching rockets because they are on top of an appartment building?

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40683 Gender:	Re: Human shields Reply #7 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 11:08pm I guess the moral obligatioin lies with muslims themselves. If you are ok with firing rockets from within your own populace , you must be ok with the same coming back. The populace freely elected you in ..........
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freediver

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Re: Human shields
Reply #8 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 11:46am

Hamas openly admits to using human shields, but Abu still insists it is some IDF conspiracy.

Calanen wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 5:49am:

Quote:

I didn't see that. Even if he did, he said "we" not "they" so that just disproves your point. Hamas see themselves as the shields, not the non-Hamas civilians. Either way, every single person in Gaza is a human shield and potentially collateral damage, this says more about the lack of morality of the Zionists and about the densely populated nature of the strip than it does about the bravery and courage of Hamas.

It's right above - here is the transcript:

Hamas MP Fathi Hammad: We Used Women and Children as Human Shields

Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.

Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Human shields
Reply #9 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 1:11pm

If they seek death, why don't they all go for a walk to the desert with suicide vests strapped on and detonate them while standing in a big huddle saying whatever rubbish they say ??

Or go swimming with blocks of cement on their feet .
Or just have a mass martyering day where all muslims can kill all other muslims with no regrets.
We'll stay well clear

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Calanen

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Re: Human shields
Reply #10 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 1:42pm

Quote:

Sounds like the people went willingly to me.

Yes HAMAS is very good at letting people 'opt out' if they dont like its agenda. They are understanding in that way.

So you've gone from, they never ever ever use human shields, too...ok they do, but the human shields WANT to be human shields, so its OK.

Either way, Hamas puts civilians on military targets to enhance civilian casualties. As we said all along.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: Human shields Reply #11 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 2:40pm HAMAS booby traps a school and a crappy zoo.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Human shields
Reply #12 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 8:21pm

Quote:

So you've gone from, they never ever ever use human shields, too...ok they do

You're a lawyer? And you don't even know the difference between 'to' and 'too'?

Anyway You still haven't shown Hamas use human shields, all you've done is show the case of one single man (not Hamas) who called some of his friends to rally around him and support him, and they did. Because they're brave and courageous people who aren't afraid to die to resist the oppression of these Zionists.

Quote:

but the human shields WANT to be human shields, so its OK.

It's their choice. When a people are faced with pretty much certain death anyway, they often become quite courageous like this, and don't fear anything.

Quote:

Either way, Hamas puts civilians on military targets to enhance civilian casualties. As we said all along.

No, Hamas do not.

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Calanen

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Re: Human shields
Reply #13 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 8:27pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 8:21pm:

So you've gone from, they never ever ever use human shields, too...ok they do

Quote:

You're a lawyer? And you don't even know the difference between 'to' and 'too'?

No I do. It's a typo. But thanks for sharing. It's the lowest form of rhetoric. Yes I am a lawyer, it's your argument that stands. You don't say your Honour, the plaintiff loses, well, because he's got a typo in the fifth paragraph.

I normally have my typing done for me.

Quote:

Anyway You still haven't shown Hamas use human shields, all you've done is show the case of one single man (not Hamas) who called some of his friends to rally around him and support him, and they did.

And a Hamas MP who said that they excel at using women, the elderly and children as human shields. But no doubt this was a bad translation and out of context.

Quote:

but the human shields WANT to be human shields, so its OK.

Quote:

It's their choice. When a people are faced with pretty much certain death anyway, they often become quite courageous like this, and don't fear anything.

Oh gimme a break. If Israel wanted to kill everyone in Gaza, it easily could have. What it has been seeking to do is to surgically take out the Hamas leadership.

Quote:

Either way, Hamas puts civilians on military targets to enhance civilian casualties. As we said all along.

So the pictures of them doing so were spontaneous demonstrations of support by random people. The HAMAS MP who said it was lying, or bad translation. The IDF that says they do it is lying.
The photos were taken out of context, and the zionist media manipulated the video.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Human shields Reply #14 - Jan 12^th, 2009 at 10:12pm Quote: It's their choice. When a people are faced with pretty much certain death anyway Perhaps if they stopped offering their children as human shields, their chances might improve a bit.
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