Australian Politics Forum - Taking Jews and Christians as friends

Yadda

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #105 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 9:51am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 17^th, 2009 at 4:54pm:

Quote:

At an ISLAMIC website, a teacher of ISLAM answers a question.....

A Saudi government appointed scholar. Yeh real authentic.

abu,

Is that as close as you get???
.....to criticism of, or denouncement of, a system [ISLAM] which perpetuates injustice and conflict in the world?

Your excuse always being,
.....when ISLAM / or some group of muslims are responsible for perpetuating some injustice, or violence, is,

...."Well those people are not real muslims."

.....and today it is,

...."Well those people are not real ISLAMIC scholars."

Next you'll be trying to convince we 'ignorant' Kuffar, that your own 'clique' [here in Australia] are the only true muslims.
And only your group [community of muslims] are still true to Allah's teachings???
/sarc off

abu,

Your arguments [deflections] are ridiculous, and wearing!

Why won't you admit it abu,
....that ISLAM is a deeply flawed philosophy, which can only ever find and 'realise' its own 'perfection', by blaming all of its own faults [more, more, more, deflection!], and 'loading' the 'guilt' for those 'offences'/faults on those who are outside of its 'group'.

"It is only those wicked unbelievers, who are responsible for all of these terrible things.
....Muslims are innocent."
/sarc off

When there is some 'fault' attributable to ISLAM / muslims,
......we always get the same story.......

ISLAM / muslims are good / innocent.
And [of course] everyone else is evil / 'guilty'.

Yet you fail to convince us abu, with TRUTH.

+++++++++++

ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE OF DEFLECTION [of 'blame' shifting].....

There Can Be No End to Jihad'
Islamist Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in an exclusive interview, discusses the rationale for 9/11, the Christians he most respects, and the Jesus he defends.
posted 11/05/2007
....Killing women and children never was and never will be part of the jihad in Islam, whether that be the women or children of the Muslims or non-Muslims.
.....However, if children are killed, the fault lies with the adult occupiers who brought them into a battlefield situation.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/februaryweb-only/22.0.html

".....However, if children are killed, the fault lies with..."

.....somebody else of course, with infidels [who cause all wars, by their resistance to Sharia].

There is never, never, ever, any fault with ISLAM.

find this here on OZ Pol,

"Girls, gaining a muslim 'education'...."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226526640/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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abu_rashid

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #106 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 8:52pm

Quote:

".....However, if children are killed, the fault lies with..."

How is that any different from your blaming of the deaths of the 1300 civilians (many of them children) with the adults of Palestine? (and that's just this year)

The only difference I can see is Jews came to Palestine to start this conflict, Palestinians didn't goto Lithuania or Ukraine to start it with the Jews.

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Soren

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #107 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 9:26pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 18^th, 2009 at 8:52pm:

The only difference I can see is Jews came to Palestine to start this conflict, Palestinians didn't goto Lithuania or Ukraine to start it with the Jews.

'ello, 'ello, 'ello, what's this, then?

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem salutes Bosnian Muslim recruits to the Waffen-SS in 1943

Well, I never!

They are garden variety muslims, not palestinian muslims, so it's OK, I suppose.

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mufti_1943.jpg (50 KB | 69 )

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends Reply #108 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 9:51pm Apart from it being tu quoque what on earth does it have to do with Palestinians going to Lithuania or Jews coming to Palestine being the cause of the current problems?
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Soren

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #109 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 11:28pm

The picture illustrates that the Muslims were eager part of the 'problem' that caused the need for Israel, with the chief Pallo mufti happily goose-stepping with the nazi chappies. Now why was the pallo spiritual ace 'sieg heiling' with the Waffen SS brothers? What is a Pallo mufti doing giving the nazi salute - in Europe, 5 years before israel was established?
He has no problem giving the sign of his submission (ahem) to the nazi leader. Is that halal?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #110 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 2:11am

Quote:

The picture illustrates that the Muslims were eager part of the 'problem' that caused the need for Israel

Cause and effect generally requires the cause to PRECEDE the effect.

Zionism began it's militant immigration-saturation program long before 1943.

This is just laughable really.

If there's any way in which the word 'caused' can be used in this situation, it would be that the militant immigration-saturation of Zionists in Palestine, CAUSED al-Husseini to resort to this.

Also let us not forget the statement of David Ben-Gurion (Prominent Zionist and Israel's first Prime Minister) himself:

Quote:

If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel

Zionists couldn't have cared less what happened to their fellow Jews in Germany, so long as it resulted in the world feeling sorry for them, and then giving them Palestine, they were prepared to let their own children pay the price.. in the gas chambers.

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Soren

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #111 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 9:04am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 19^th, 2009 at 2:11am:

Quote:

The picture illustrates that the Muslims were eager part of the 'problem' that caused the need for Israel

Cause and effect generally requires the cause to PRECEDE the effect.

Zionism began it's militant immigration-saturation program long before 1943.

This is just laughable really.

If there's any way in which the word 'caused' can be used in this situation, it would be that the militant immigration-saturation of Zionists in Palestine, CAUSED al-Husseini to resort to this.

Also let us not forget the statement of David Ben-Gurion (Prominent Zionist and Israel's first Prime Minister) himself:

Quote:

If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel

Zionists couldn't have cared less what happened to their fellow Jews in Germany, so long as it resulted in the world feeling sorry for them, and then giving them Palestine, they were prepared to let their own children pay the price.. in the gas chambers.

I ask about the Mufti and you tell me about Ben Gurion. That's so neat: poor mufti and his followers were made to goose step and hail Adolf as the dear leader - by the joos!
The depth of muslim joo hatred and resentment is unfathomable. The whole of Islam is one giant dummy spit about the joos.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #112 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 7:40pm

Quote:

I ask about the Mufti and you tell me about Ben Gurion.

I know shocking isn't it. It was about as relevant as you telling me about the Mufti, when I was speaking about Palestinians not going to Lithuania.

Quote:

poor mufti and his followers were made to goose step and hail Adolf as the dear leader - by the joos!

Well, lets see. Out of all the Muslim countries with Muftis, only one of them is implicated in this. Yet of course it has nothing to do with the fact the Jews were taking over that country by stealth does it???

Doesn't mean siding with Nazis was a legitimate action, it was not. But we can obviously see why he did it, and why it wasn't the Mufti of Baghdad or Makkah or Damascus or Constantinople or Marrakesh or Tunis or Timbuktu or Cairo who was there.

Quote:

The depth of muslim joo hatred and resentment is unfathomable. The whole of Islam is one giant dummy spit about the joos

This is a very unfounded claim. Prior to the militant saturation-immigration of Palestine, few Muslims had any problem with Jews, and as we know for the past 1400 years, they lived much better under Islam than under Christianity. Their stealthy take over of Palestine is what has caused this, and I'm sure if someone took over your country by stealth, you'd have probably more hatred for them. In fact you already have more hatred for Muslims, yet Muslims haven't even taken over so much as a local council in your country yet. When they take over half of your country, then let's see if your muslim-hatred matches theirs or surpasses it, My guess is it will be the latter.

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Soren

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #113 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 9:23pm

[quote author=abu_rashid link=1231993677/105#112 date=1235036425]

You mean "Their stealthy take over reclaiming of Palestine ... "

This is really thee sticking point.

Imagine if the Greeks came back and said, 'Oy, clear out of Constatipole, it's ours, you stole it, clear out. Same with the west coast of today's Turkey, Syria and Llebanon. All you blow in Arabs, back to Araby! Let us decolonise for real!!"

Would be as legit.
Same in israel.

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Lestat

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #114 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 8:43am

Soren wrote on Feb 19^th, 2009 at 9:23pm:

[quote author=abu_rashid link=1231993677/105#112 date=1235036425]

You mean "Their stealthy take over reclaiming of Palestine ... "

This is really thee sticking point.

Imagine if the Greeks came back and said, 'Oy, clear out of Constatipole, it's ours, you stole it, clear out. Same with the west coast of today's Turkey, Syria and Llebanon. All you blow in Arabs, back to Araby! Let us decolonise for real!!"

Would be as legit.
Same in israel.

Re-claiming...what, 2 thousand years later? lol, what a joke.

With your very limited understanding of history, it seems that you don't even know that these area's were ruled by others before the Greeks, or the Israeli's for that matter.

Much of Turkey belonged to the Hittites long before you Christians were murdering native inhabitants and destroying whole civilisations. After that, the Assyrians, after that, the Babylonians.

Israel has been ruled by many different empires, often for far longer then the Israeli's. The Egyptians ruled over Canaan for a couple of centuries, as well as the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Sumerians...all long before the Israelites arrived.

So using your stupid logic, then the Egyptians, also have every right to 're-claim' Palestine, having ruled over the land BEFORE the Israeli's, and for longer.

Oh, and also while we are at it, perhaps you should give up your home and land to the Aboriginals. After all, a 40,000 year claim is much stronger then the 2-300 odd years that Israel ruled over Palestine, and given you've already stated that 'such a claim is legit'..I would expect that you would put your money where mouth is and practise what your preach.

Perhaps they can even learn from the Urgan and Stern and resort to terrorist attacks, then perhaps they'd gain your support. After all, we've all seen how much you respect murderers. After all, you did say that 're-claiming' land is legit.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #115 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 9:31am

Quote:

Imagine if the Greeks came back and said, 'Oy, clear out of Constatipole, it's ours, you stole it, clear out. Same with the west coast of today's Turkey, Syria and Llebanon. All you blow in Arabs, back to Araby! Let us decolonise for real!!"

Ummm... Turkey is ruled by Turks, not Arabs. Nevermind, you almost managed to come up with a half relevant analogy. Better luck next time.

And in case you hadn't noticed, most Turks don't look overly Turkic (ie. Mongol type features), they're actually mostly Greek/Armenian/Kurdish/Balkan background, mixed also with Turkic people who settled there about a millenium ago. Many of the Byzantine Greeks embraced Islam en masse when they saw the justice and fairness of it's systems. Some of the greatest Ottoman leaders were actually of Greek background, and quite a few of the Grand Wazirs (Prime Ministers) were actually Greek background.

Same goes for Palestine and Jews/Christians. Many of the modern day Palestinians are descendants of Jews and Christians. Even only a few generations back, quite a few Palestinians have Jewish/Christian ancestry.

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Soren

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #116 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 10:04am

Lestat wrote on Feb 20^th, 2009 at 8:43am:

Israel has been ruled by many different empires, often for far longer then the Israeli's. The Egyptians ruled over Canaan for a couple of centuries, as well as the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Sumerians...all long before the Israelites arrived.

So using your stupid logic, then the Egyptians, also have every right to 're-claim' Palestine, having ruled over the land BEFORE the Israeli's, and for longer.

Sooo... what's so special about the pallos then? Pleople come and go, the pallos had a run, go to the back of the queue.

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Soren

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #117 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 10:10am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 20^th, 2009 at 9:31am:

Quote:

Imagine if the Greeks came back and said, 'Oy, clear out of Constatipole, it's ours, you stole it, clear out. Same with the west coast of today's Turkey, Syria and Llebanon. All you blow in Arabs, back to Araby! Let us decolonise for real!!"

Ummm... Turkey is ruled by Turks, not Arabs. Nevermind, you almost managed to come up with a half relevant analogy. Better luck next time.

And in case you hadn't noticed, most Turks don't look overly Turkic (ie. Mongol type features), they're actually mostly Greek/Armenian/Kurdish/Balkan background, mixed also with Turkic people who settled there about a millenium ago. Many of the Byzantine Greeks embraced Islam en masse when they saw the justice and fairness of it's systems. Some of the greatest Ottoman leaders were actually of Greek background, and quite a few of the Grand Wazirs (Prime Ministers) were actually Greek background.

Same goes for Palestine and Jews/Christians. Many of the modern day Palestinians are descendants of Jews and Christians. Even only a few generations back, quite a few Palestinians have Jewish/Christian ancestry.

See? What's the problem then? They were joos and Christians before the Muslim invasion, and now they back under the rulers they once had.

Your bellyache is about Islam, nor race or nationality.

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Lestat

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #118 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 10:25am

Soren wrote on Feb 20^th, 2009 at 10:04am:

Lestat wrote on Feb 20^th, 2009 at 8:43am:

Israel has been ruled by many different empires, often for far longer then the Israeli's. The Egyptians ruled over Canaan for a couple of centuries, as well as the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Sumerians...all long before the Israelites arrived.

So using your stupid logic, then the Egyptians, also have every right to 're-claim' Palestine, having ruled over the land BEFORE the Israeli's, and for longer.

Sooo... what's so special about the pallos then? Pleople come and go, the pallos had a run, go to the back of the queue.

Whats so special about the jooooos, that you believe they have the right to re-claim a land they ruled over...more then 2000 years ago.

Why is their claim 'legit', whilst, the 'Pallows' as you childishly put it, are not. Couldn't be because their arabs could it.

The very little credibility you ever had is very quickly disapearing.

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Yadda

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Re: Taking Jews and Christians as friends
Reply #119 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 10:47am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 18^th, 2009 at 8:52pm:

....How is that any different from your blaming of the deaths of the 1300 civilians (many of them children) with the adults of Palestine? (and that's just this year)

abu,

Here is an update on those '1300' dead 'Palestinians'...

"......According to the Post, the CLA said "580 of these 1,200 had been conclusively 'incriminated' as members of Hamas and other terrorist groups."......Corriere quoted "a doctor" in Gaza's Shifa hospital saying the death toll could not be more than 600, reporting that the dead mainly consisted of young Hamas fighters between 17-23 years old."

Errr.....600 [total] minus 580 [Hamas fighters casualties], equals a probable 20 civilian casualties.
......whose blood, is on the hands of Hamas.

"We don't target civilians claims IDF"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1232747563/12#12

It turns out, almost all of the Gaza casualties may have been Hamas fighters.

And these Hamas fighters all WANTED to die for Allah.

So at least they themselves [the Hamas fighters], and their families, must be very happy.

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2009 at 10:52am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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