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Indians invented numbers. (Read 1180 times)
pope urban 2
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Indians invented numbers.
Jan 16th, 2009 at 9:26am
 
I have been reading many articals and have read numerous times the the Arabs invented numbers, this isn't true, they infact came from India. Are Arabs claiming the Alphabet as well.
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Soren
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 11:09am
 
pope urban 2 wrote on Jan 16th, 2009 at 9:26am:
I have been reading many articals and have read numerous times the the Arabs invented numbers, this isn't true, they infact came from India. Are Arabs claiming the Alphabet as well.



Not numbers (numbers cannot be invented), only figures, that is, a system of writing down numbers. And they (the Indians) 'invented' only the system of figures we have adopted. The Romans had their own system.

The Arabs learned many more things from the Indians, for example, in medicine.
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DILLIGAF
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #2 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 11:20am
 
The Indians are a very clever (and cunning) people.
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Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
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pope urban 2
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #3 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 11:48am
 
Everthing put to use is an invention, is not the word number an invention in itself, speach, language, figures, all inventions. You can say they evolved but at some stage someone has put thought into it.
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tallowood
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #4 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 12:06pm
 
We sort of discussed it before http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1218803024/75

Quote:
History of mathematics is a very fascinating topic on its own.
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/chronology.html

It is definitely a collection that is the result of all nations and goes back in time as far as human race itself.
For example:
Quote:
There is evidence that women devised counting to keep track of their menstrual cycles; 28 to 30 scratches on bone or stone, followed by a distinctive marker. Moreover, hunters and herders employed the concepts of one, two, and many, as well as the idea of none or zero, when considering herds of animals
...
In the 7th century, Brahmagupta identified the Brahmagupta theorem, Brahmagupta's identity and Brahmagupta's formula, and for the first time, in Brahma-sphuta-siddhanta, he lucidly explained the use of zero as both a placeholder and decimal digit and explained the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. It was from a translation of this Indian text on mathematics (around 770) that Islamic mathematicians were introduced to this numeral system, which they adapted as Arabic numerals.
...
In the 9th century, Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Ḵwārizmī wrote several important books on the Hindu-Arabic numerals and on methods for solving equations. His book On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals, written about 825, along with the work of Al-Kindi, were instrumental in spreading Indian mathematics and Indian numerals to the West. The word algorithm is derived from the Latinization of his name, Algoritmi, and the word algebra from the title of one of his works, Al-Kitāb al-mukhtaṣar fī hīsāb al-ğabr wa’l-muqābala (The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing). Al-Khwarizmi is often called the "father of algebra", for his fundamental contributions to the field.
...


Interestingly enough Islamic mathematicians of the time were not driven by religion of Islam as were medieval Europeans:
Quote:
Medieval European interest in mathematics was driven by concerns quite different from those of modern mathematicians. One driving element was the belief that mathematics provided the key to understanding the created order of nature, frequently justified by Plato's Timaeus and the biblical passage that God had "ordered all things in measure, and number, and weight"...


Actually European mathematics were "jump started" in beginning of 13th century after "European scholars travelled to Spain and Sicily seeking scientific Arabic texts, including al-Khwarizmi's al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, translated into Latin by Robert of Chester, and the complete text of Euclid's Elements, translated in various versions by Adelard of Bath, Herman of Carinthia, and Gerard of Cremona."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mathematics#cite_note-5


As for "zero" or "0":
Quote:
The oldest known text to use a decimal place-value system, including a zero, is the Jain text from India entitled the Lokavibhâga, dated 458 AD. This text uses Sanskrit numeral words for the digits, with words such as the Sanskrit word for void for zero (see also the section Etymology above).[19] The first known use of special glyphs for the decimal digits that includes the indubitable appearance of a symbol for the digit zero, a small circle, appears on a stone inscription found at the Chaturbhuja Temple at Gwalior in India, dated 876 CE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number)#History


But the discussion got stifled by turning to religion.  I'm glad if we can revive it here.
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Soren
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #5 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 10:51pm
 
pope urban 2 wrote on Jan 16th, 2009 at 11:48am:
Everthing put to use is an invention, is not the word number an invention in itself, speach, language, figures, all inventions. You can say they evolved but at some stage someone has put thought into it.



That theree iss one moon, is onee=ness, is not an invention.  That there is one you is not an invention.
The numbeer of your eyes iss not an invention.

Numbers are. One-ness is not dependnt on the existence of your mind, or indeed, of any human mind. This is the breathtaking thing about the mind - it can perceive invisible, immaterial yet irrefutable things. No wonder a lot of god talk is about numbers in some way.



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pope urban 2
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #6 - Jan 17th, 2009 at 8:29am
 
Mans ability to imagine has created much for the betterment of mankind, its a shame that the biggest imagined creation may be the cause of the end.
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God takes care of old folks and fools, while the Devil makes up all the rules.
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: Indians invented numbers.
Reply #7 - Jan 17th, 2009 at 7:58pm
 
There is no doubting that the decimel counting system that the Europeans learnt through their interactions with al-Andalus were indeed originally taken from the Indians (albeit about 500 years before). However, the "Arabic Numerals" are indeed Arabic numerals, in the sense that most of the Indian numerals would be completely unrecognisable to most Europeans, whilst the numerals as they'd been developed in Andalus would be instantly recognisable to most Europeans.

This is how the Indian numerals looked, when the Arabs first adopted them:
...

After they modified them and had used them for about 500 years (the idea they merely 'carried' them to Europe is just ridiculous):
...

Interesting point to note was that for quite some time, it was actually against the law in Europe to use the evil magical numbers of the 'Saracens' which were considered demonic and would only bring misfortune.
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abu_rashid  
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