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Traces of Life on Mars? (Read 20917 times)
muso
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Traces of Life on Mars?
Jan 16th, 2009 at 1:59pm
 
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muso
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 2:00pm
 
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24920193-952,00.html

I guess they have to be careful when formulating newspaper story headlines so that they achieve the required objective. To convey a sense of truth ? Don't be daft - the objective is to sell newspapers.

I guess if they put Traces of Methane on Mars, nobody would read it, and if they put "Traces of Methane which may or may not be due to life or geology" it wouldn't fit in a headline.

Some people just read the headlines. For some people that fall into that category, they have found life on Mars already. Maybe it's not intelligent life - maybe Mars is just inhabited by knife wielding bogan racists who have an aversion to anything that comes from Earth, the blue planet. If it's not red, it's dead. They can't come here and wear space helmets - they could be concealing explosives! or worse - Religious texts.
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muso
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #2 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 2:10pm
 
One of the places that this could be coming from is Elysium Planum. Under the sands of Mars, there is something amounting to a layer of water, which probably emanated from a volcanic vent then boiled and froze as it was boiling, leaving ice with a honeycomb of bubbles containing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and water vapour. Over millions of years, the surface of Mars is bombarded by high energy Cosmic rays (mostly electrons). These cause the gases in these bubbles to split into atmoic ions and recombine. So we have CO2 and H2O. Guess what we get when a Carbon recombines with four hydrogens? - That's right - methane. No life required.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
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Rovers celebrate five years of highs and lows on Mars
Reply #3 - Jan 28th, 2009 at 5:16pm
 
http://www.newscientist.com/gallery/dn16408-rover-five-years/1

This month, NASA's twin Mars rovers are celebrating their fifth anniversary on the Red Planet, long outlasting the three months they were scheduled to survive (find out the three secrets to their success). This gallery highlights the rovers' biggest discoveries and most stunning images.

NASA's twin rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, blasted off Earth on 10 June and 7 July 2003 and landed on opposite sides of the Red Planet on 4 January and 25 January 2004, respectively. Their mission was initially scheduled to last three months. (Illustration: NASA/JPL-Caltech)

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Almost immediately after landing in a region of Mars called Meridiani Planum, Opportunity made a watershed discovery: rocks at its landing site had formed in ancient acidic lakes. The evidence came from hematite - which almost always forms in water - in the form of tiny spherules called "blueberries" (pictured); distinctively curved lines of sediment that resulted from the gentle sweeping motion of a water current; and sulphate salts that may have been left behind when salty water evaporated (though other researchers have argued that volcanism or meteorite impacts could explain the sulphate sediments). (Image: NASA/JPL/Cornell/USGS)

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Unlike its twin, Spirit did not immediately find evidence of water at its landing site in Gusev Crater. Orbital images had suggested the crater was once an ancient lake, but Spirit turned up little besides basaltic lava flows for its first six months on the planet (the lava may have buried evidence of any lake sediments once there). But the rover enjoyed a reversal of fortune when it reached the higher terrain of the Columbia hills, which are even older than the approximately 3 billion-year-old volcanic plains on Gusev's floor. It found intriguing sulphur-rich rocks that appear to have formed in the presence of water. The rock in this image, named Clovis, contains an iron-bearing mineral called goethite that can form only in water. (Image: NASA/JPL/Cornell)

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In January 2005, Opportunity found an unusual, metallic-looking rock (pictured) near its discarded heat shield. It used onboard spectrometers to confirm that the rock was made of iron and nickel, showing that indeed it must be a meteorite that had fallen from the sky - the first meteorite ever found on another planet. In April 2006, Spirit followed suit, spotting two iron meteorites. Such metallic meteorites, which make up just a few percent of the space rocks expected to litter the Martian surface, are easier to identify based on their appearance and spectral properties than the more common "stony" meteorites. (Image: NASA/JPL/Cornell)

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In March 2005, Spirit captured images of two dust devils - vortices that lift dust from the surface into the air - in one day (one can faintly be seen in this image). It was the first time any had been seen on Mars since the Mars Pathfinder mission in 1997. Around the same time, a separate dust devil apparently also swept the rover's solar panels clean of a year's accumulation of dust, restoring their power output to 93% of initial levels. (Image: NASA)

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In April 2005, Opportunity got stuck as it was crossing a series of shallow, sandy ridges. It ultimately spent about five weeks trapped on a 30-centimetre-high ripple of soil nicknamed "Purgatory Dune" (shown here in this vertical projection woven together from images from its navigation camera). When it got stuck, its primary objective had been speed. It was cruising along at 200 metres a day and most of its software safeguards - which could have detected that its wheels were slipping - were turned off. That caused the rover to dig itself in more deeply than it would have otherwise. Mission members learned from the mishap, freeing the rover by driving it backwards and instituting periodic wheel 'slip checks'. In June 2006, those changes helped the rover quickly extricate itself from a sandy spot nicknamed "Jammerbugt", Danish for the "Bay of Lamentation". (Image: NASA/JPL)

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On 19 May 2005, Spirit captured this spectacular view as the Sun sank below the rim of Gusev crater. This was voted the most popular image in a rover photo contest. (Image: NASA/JPL/Texas A and M/Cornell)

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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #4 - Jan 28th, 2009 at 5:18pm
 
In May 2007, mission scientists reported a major discovery with Spirit: evidence for rocks made almost entirely of silica, a telltale sign they were formed in water. Ironically, a mechanical failure led to the find - one of its six wheels had locked up in 2006 and had to be simply dragged along after that. The immobilised wheel uncovered a patch of bright soil that an onboard spectrometer revealed was rich in silica, which had not been seen before by either rover.(Image: NASA/JPL/Cornell)

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Silica-rich soil (previous slide), which likely formed when large amounts of water interacted with hot volcanic material, was found in the Eastern Valley - dubbed "silica valley" - by Spirit. Its observations had earlier shown that a nearby, raised plateau called Home Plate probably resulted from an explosive volcanic event involving water. Layers of volcanic material may have filled in a crater that became Home Plate when its surroundings eroded away. (Image: NASA/JPL/U of Arizona)

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In September 2006, Opportunity reached an 800-metre-wide crater called Victoria after travelling more than 9 kilometres from its landing site in Eagle Crater. Victoria is 40 times as wide as Eagle Crater, and about five times as wide as Endurance Crater, which it studied for about six months in 2004. (Image: NASA/JPL/MSSS/Ohio State University)

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Opportunity began descending into Victoria Crater in September 2007, after a year of skirting its rim and waiting out dust storms. The meteorite impact that gouged out the crater long ago exposed layers of bedrock 30 metres deep, about six times deeper than anything Opportunity previously had the chance to examine. Importantly, the full depth of Victoria crater - and indeed the entire region explored by the rover in Meridiani Planum over its lifetime - is covered by sulphate sandstones. These rocks are thought to have formed several billion years ago when sand dunes came into contact with water - possibly in shallow lakes - and cemented into solid rocks. "The environment of deposition was regional, not local," says rover scientist Ray Arvidson. This image shows a cliff on Victoria's rim called Cape St Vincent. (Image: NASA/JPL/Cornell)

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Opportunity clambered out of Victoria Crater in August 2008 and began heading towards a gaping crater called Endeavour, which is more than 20 times as big as Victoria. The 12-km trek - which spans nearly the same distance as the rover has travelled since landing on Mars in 2004 - is expected to take more than two years. This false-colour image is part of a 360° panorama taken in late 2008. At that time, the rover parked in one spot for a few weeks while the Sun was between Mars and Earth, limiting communication with ground controllers. (Image: NASA/JPL/Cornell)

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Spirit lies farther south than Opportunity, so it receives less sunlight on its solar panels during wintertime in the southern hemisphere. As a result, it has to hunker down in one spot to conserve energy over the long, cold season. The rover took this northward-looking false-colour image in January 2008 from its hibernation spot on the northern edge of the Home Plate plateau (Husband Hill, part of the Columbia Hills, lies on the horizon). It hasn't moved much since then because its solar panels are coated with dust - a situation that turned critical after a dust storm in November 2008 that cut its power levels to an all-time low. The recuperating rover will soon start to drive to a hill dubbed Von Braun and a small crater called Goddard some 200 to 300 metres away. (Image: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Cornell University)

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Mars once covered in water, space agency says
Reply #5 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:57pm
 
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/space/06/25/mars.water/index.html?hpt=T1

(CNN) -- Conditions favorable to life may once have existed all over Mars, the European Space Agency said Friday.

Two spacecraft have found evidence that liquid water was widespread over the red planet.

The ESA's Mars Express and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have discovered hydrated silicate minerals in the northern lowlands of Mars, a clear indication that water once flowed there, the ESA said.

The two spacecraft had previously found thousands of small outcrops in the planet's southern hemisphere where rock minerals had been altered by water, it said. Many of these outcrops are in the form of hydrated clay minerals known as phyllosilicates. They indicate the planet's southern hemisphere was once much warmer and wetter than it is today.

No such sites had been found in the northern lowlands until this week, the ESA said. The northern lowlands are covered in thick blankets of lava and sediments up to several kilometers thick and that had hampered efforts to probe what lay beneath.

The ESA's Mars Express found the first hints of water in the northern plains, but the outcrops were small and more detailed observations were needed to confirm the evidence, the ESA said.

NASA's Orbiter provided higher resolution data that showed at least nine northern craters with phyllosilicates or other hydrated silicates, the ESA said. The finding was reported this week in the journal Science.

Those minerals formed in wet environments and were identical to those found in the southern hemisphere.

"We can now say that the planet was altered on a global scale by liquid water more than 4 billion years ago," said the report's lead author, John Carter of the University of Paris.

Scientists said it's difficult to draw conclusions about the type of environment that existed on Mars when it had water, but they do have some clues.

The sites "are rich in iron and magnesium, but less in aluminum. Together with the close proximity of olivine, which is easily modified by water, this indicates that the exposure to water lasted only tens to hundreds of millions of years," said Jean-Pierre Bibring, the OMEGA principal investigator from the University of Paris.

The scientists' search concentrated on 91 sizeable craters where incoming asteroids have punched down the planet's surface by several kilometers, exposing "ancient crustal material," the ESA said.

The results could also suggest sites for future Mars landers, because evidence of water during the planet's early history suggests conditions in those spots may have been favorable to the evolution of primitive life, the ESA said.
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #6 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 5:20pm
 
Interesting.....

It has been a common theory that there 'has' been water on Mars, and/or life of some type...

It's a very interesting article......Makes me wonder how complex 'Martian Life' may have been in the past....
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muso
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #7 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 9:06pm
 
I don't think there was ever life on Mars, but I agree that there was liquid water once.

If there was ever life, it would have been very primitive. I'll explain that if anybody is interested.

People make astonishing assertions about Mars. There is a lot of wishful thinking.
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #8 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:55pm
 
Quote:
If there was ever life, it would have been very primitive. I'll explain that if anybody is interested.


I'm all ears.
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Bobby.
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #9 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 2:24am
 
I believe one theory which some accept as probable is that bacterial
or some other sort of single cell life  started on Mars & moved
to earth via asteroids colliding with Mars -
which broke off small pieces of rock containing life that
subsequently landed on earth.

One powerful reason is that conditions for life were at least a
billion years in advance on Mars compared to the Earth.

The real search on Mars is for fossilised remains of single
cell organisms.
To find life still living there, would be a bonus.

Wouldn't it be great if that Mars rover found a piece of
rock with some fossil remains?
I don't think it carries a microscope - unfortunately as
fossilised bacteria is too small to be seen with their camera.
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muso
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #10 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 8:33am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2010 at 2:24am:
I believe one theory which some accept as probable is that bacterial
or some other sort of single cell life  started on Mars & moved
to earth via asteroids colliding with Mars -
which broke off small pieces of rock containing life that
subsequently landed on earth.

One powerful reason is that conditions for life were at least a
billion years in advance on Mars compared to the Earth.

The real search on Mars is for fossilised remains of single
cell organisms.
To find life still living there, would be a bonus.

Wouldn't it be great if that Mars rover found a piece of
rock with some fossil remains?
I don't think it carries a microscope - unfortunately as
fossilised bacteria is too small to be seen with their camera.



You believe that theory.but you don't believe there is a God?  Wink

There has been research regarding the survival of bacteria in space, but only within the relative protection of the Earth's magnetic field (in Low Earth Orbit). Of course we know that some bacteria survived on the moon within a TV camera with a certain degree of screening afforded by the metal casing.

We know that there are extremophiles on Earth which have adapted to their very specific environments which include high salinity, extreme cold, highly acidic environments and high exposure to radiation (deinococcus radiodurans), but any one extremophile would die when planted outside it's environment. For example d. radiodurans is not happy in saline environments or extreme cold.

Extremophiles have DNA sequences in common with other terrestrial organisms. They have obviously evolved for specific environments. In order for that to happen, you need an abundance of life in the first place in order for an organism to specialise.

When it comes to Mars, you're talking about extremely acidic, extremely saline conditions PLUS radiation. Mars never had a significant global magnetic field.

Researchers such as Chandra Wickramasinghe have a lot of faith on the concept of panspermia with very little evidence. The red rains of Kerala was one example where he made international headlines for his claims that they were evidence of panspermia.
 
The whole idea of life on Mars is one enormous 'what if'. Nobody knows, and there is no evidence whatsoever that there ever was life on Mars.

What was it you said elsewhere about extraordinary claims? - yet you are happy to accept a theory that had absolutely no factual basis except for the collective navel contemplation of a group of astrobiologists (is that a real job anyway?).
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muso
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #11 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 8:50am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:55pm:
Quote:
If there was ever life, it would have been very primitive. I'll explain that if anybody is interested.


I'm all ears.


It comes down to the fact that conditions were very extreme. The evidence indicates that the atmosphere was very thick at one stage - thick enough to support liquid water at the surface, but the conditions were highly acidic (as indicated by the presence of certain minerals)

Of course we base a lot of our conclusions on Earth based life - It's a sample of one, but life which uses oxygen in cellular respiration has a considerable energy advantage to anaerobic respiration eg Iron, Sulphate etc. There is nothing that suggests that Mars ever got to the stage of having oxygen-generating microbes such as Cyanobacteria which changed the atmosphere on Earth.

As a result, any life that may have existed would have been anaerobic, and consequently much less able to evolve.

That's it in a nutshell. It's an opinion. I don't claim anything more than that.
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Bobby.
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #12 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 11:18am
 
Muso said
Quote:
What was it you said elsewhere about extraordinary claims? - yet you are happy to accept a theory that had absolutely no factual basis except for the collective navel contemplation of a group of astrobiologists (is that a real job anyway?).


There is not enough extraordinary evidence to back up the claims
that life may have started on Mars.
It just seems to be the best theory so far.
It certainly has more credibility than:
The guy with a beard did it.
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #13 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 11:57am
 
Don't stress too much about Muso's conflicted views on spirituality, he has had an each way bet, and failed to get a collect on either.
Understandable as it may seem to try and distance oneself from the more extreme and strident adherents of any contrived proposition, it can leave one exposed and vulnerable, when there is a real position of integrity at stake.

All that aside, the issue of Life On Mars is of concern to me primarily for what version is the most enjoyable, and outside of the original, I find this contemporary rendition by a somewhat haggard looking and unglamorous David Bowie, particularly well done, but must admit to a lifelong love for so much of his music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOo8J_CLCA4&feature=related
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muso
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Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #14 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 12:04pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2010 at 11:18am:
Muso said
Quote:
What was it you said elsewhere about extraordinary claims? - yet you are happy to accept a theory that had absolutely no factual basis except for the collective navel contemplation of a group of astrobiologists (is that a real job anyway?).


There is not enough extraordinary evidence to back up the claims
that life may have started on Mars.
It just seems to be the best theory so far.
It certainly has more credibility than:
The guy with a beard did it.


As I've said before, I don't believe in any deities other than the ones inside the heads of believers. On the subject of life, I still think that the best theory so far is that the chemicals for life were produced inside comets and that life itself evolved on Earth as a once only event and started off in the form of prokaryotic bacteria. That's my opinion, and it's based on the main body of evidence.

If life had evolved more than once in the past 4.5 billion years, we'd see two or more distinct lineages.  The same would apply if life had evolved in the water and organic chemical rich interiors of comets, heated by the radioactive decay of Aluminium-26. As it stands, all life on Earth is related to all other life, with the possible exception of nanobes for the simple reason that we don't know enough about them.

I think that the chemical ingredients for life are widespread throughout the galaxy, but life itself is too fragile to travel across interstellar distances or even between planets.
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