Australian Politics Forum - Traces of Life on Mars?

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #15 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 12:06pm

mozzaok wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 11:57am:

Don't stress too much about Muso's conflicted views on spirituality, he has had an each way bet, and failed to get a collect on either.

I make no secret about my views on spirituality. I believe it to be an essential property of the human mind. I am after all, an atheist. (Today being Sunday)

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 106942
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #16 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 12:37pm

Muso
Quote:

I think that the chemical ingredients for life are widespread throughout the galaxy, but life itself is too fragile to travel across interstellar distances or even between planets.

You are wrong there.
Bacteria can survive inside frozen rocks for almost an eternity.
They just need to be thawed out & they start multiplying again.
Look at Antarctica.
Frozen core samples of bacteria in ice that is thousands of
years old started living again when thawed out.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #17 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 1:31pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 12:37pm:

Muso
Quote:

I think that the chemical ingredients for life are widespread throughout the galaxy, but life itself is too fragile to travel across interstellar distances or even between planets.

You are wrong there.
Bacteria can survive inside frozen rocks for almost an eternity.
They just need to be thawed out & they start multiplying again.
Look at Antarctica.
Frozen core samples of bacteria in ice that is thousands of
years old started living again when thawed out.

1. What proportion of meteors strike the Earth from outside the solar system do you think?

2. Even in the tests involving bacteria in LEO for most bacteria, the proportion remaining viable after a short term was less than 10%.

The only exception to this were salt tolerant bacteria which survived within a salt crystal, but given the vast interstellar distances and the accuracy required to hit a candidate planet, you're talking about some extremely low (almost negligible) probabilities.

The probability that life initiated on Earth (abiogenesis) is much higher. Recent research shows that clay minerals could have played an important role in forming primitive cell walls.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 106942
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #18 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:07pm

Quote:

1. What proportion of meteors strike the Earth from outside the solar system do you think?

I have no idea but I can assure you that the number is huge.
Meteorites from Mars have been found in Antarctic ice.

Frozen bacteria can survive almost forever so I don't know
where you're coming from.

May I remind you that I'm an amateur astronomer?

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #19 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:07pm:

Quote:

1. What proportion of meteors strike the Earth from outside the solar system do you think?

I have no idea but I can assure you that the number is huge.
Meteorites from Mars have been found in Antarctic ice.

Frozen bacteria can survive almost forever so I don't know
where you're coming from.

May I remind you that I'm an amateur astronomer?

I said from 'outside the solar system'. As far as I'm aware there are none, although I used to be in regular contact with a researcher from the University of Manchester who worked on 'star dust'

Now that stuff is interesting. There are certainly Martian meteorites, there are Lunar meteorites, meteorites from Vesta and Ceres, and the usual chondrites, achondrites and metallic meteorites.

You can tell where meteorites come from within the solar system by their isotope ratios.

I'll tell you a story some day in private about meteors, but we were talking about Mars.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106942 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Traces of Life on Mars? Reply #20 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:32pm Quote: I'll tell you a story some day in private about meteors, but we were talking about Mars. Tell me now - tell everyone.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49438
At my desk.

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #21 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:57pm

Quote:

and that life itself evolved on Earth as a once only event and started off in the form of prokaryotic bacteria

Wouldn't it have started of as something much simpler that can no longer survive in nature?

Quote:

If life had evolved more than once in the past 4.5 billion years, we'd see two or more distinct lineages.

Traditionally the theory of evolution rules out chimerism, but that is obviously not the case. Thus, universal common ancestry is certainly not proven from the evidence.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106942 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Traces of Life on Mars? Reply #22 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 3:03pm Freediver - it may be the case that only chains of carbon based molecules can form life. Maybe DNA is the only method possible for it to do so? If so all life in the universe may have DNA.
Back to top	IP Logged

muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Traces of Life on Mars? Reply #23 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 5:57pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 3:03pm: Freediver - it may be the case that only chains of carbon based molecules can form life. Maybe DNA is the only method possible for it to do so? If so all life in the universe may have DNA. Yeah - I'm pretty sure the Na'vi have DNA.
Back to top	1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #24 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 6:00pm

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:57pm:

Quote:

and that life itself evolved on Earth as a once only event and started off in the form of prokaryotic bacteria

Wouldn't it have started of as something much simpler that can no longer survive in nature?

Er yeah - you're right. Strictly speaking I meant that all life probably branched out from prokaryotic bacteria.

On the other point, I'll get back to you. I have to do my weekly commute now.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 28^th, 2010 at 8:11am by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106942 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Traces of Life on Mars? Reply #25 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 11:28pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:32pm: Quote: I'll tell you a story some day in private about meteors, but we were talking about Mars. Tell me now - tell everyone. Still waiting, waiting waiting.
Back to top	IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #26 - Jun 28^th, 2010 at 7:43am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 11:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:32pm:

Quote:

I'll tell you a story some day in private about meteors, but we were talking about Mars.

Tell me now - tell everyone.

Still waiting, waiting waiting.

See at the top of the Forum where it says you have x messages and 1 new message?

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106942 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Traces of Life on Mars? Reply #27 - Jun 28^th, 2010 at 7:52am OK Muso - I replied to you privately. cheers Bobby.
Back to top	IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #28 - Jun 28^th, 2010 at 8:22am

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 2:57pm:

Traditionally the theory of evolution rules out chimerism, but that is obviously not the case. Thus, universal common ancestry is certainly not proven from the evidence.

There goes that word 'proven' again. We have evidence that supports such a claim in certain DNA sequences that are common to all Earth based life, but you're right.

This life doesn't come with any free tickets to the land of 100% certainty.

For one thing, we have absolutely no idea whatsoever about the DNA of the Ediacarans or Vendians.

Why does the theory of Evolution rule out chimerism? If we're talking about the same thing, chimerism is just a regressive trait, as albinism is. We'll continue to get examples throughout populations, but as they are non-viable, they don't pass on their characteristics.

Stay cool. Jah bless, man.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 28^th, 2010 at 8:29am by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 106942
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Traces of Life on Mars?
Reply #29 - Jun 28^th, 2010 at 1:34pm

We need a new mission to Mars with robots that are closer
to being human like.
They need to be able to use a geologists hammer & inspect
layers of rock in the search for fossil remains.
They must have access to a microscope to see any
possible microscopic fossils.
I hope we have the answer to the question of life
on Mars within my lifetime.
I really want to know.

Back to top

IP Logged