NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 9^th, 2009 at 11:20am:



LOL

muso wrote on Feb 8^th, 2009 at 9:06pm:




Positions on the existence of God, [appended with muso's personal determination]....

1. There are people who believe that there is no God.
2. There are people who believe that there may be a God. But hey, they don't know.
3. There are people who believe that there is a God, and they pray to him.
4. There are people who know there is a God.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
5. There are people who know there is no God.




#5. There are people who know there is no God. ???



muso,

Every human being on the planet can accept / select one of the 1st four propositions above, and accept one of them as a valid proposition.

But not one human being on the planet could take on proposition #5, as a valid proposition.

Why not?

Because no human being is omniscient, or omnipresent.

For us to be certain [that within the 'confines' of an 'infinite' universe      ] that there was no God, a human being would need to be omniscient, or omnipresent.

Dictionary,
omniscient = = knowing everything.

Dictionary,
omnipresent = = present everywhere at the same time.

Human beings don't possess such knowledge or 'presence'.

I would postulate, that most human beings who [for example] are the parents of teenage children, barely know where their children are, from one moment to the next, and certainly do not know what their teenage children are 'doing'.

The only way a human being can know for certain that there is no God [in an 'infinite' universe], is if that human being possesses knowledge of 'all things'.

I would go so far as to postulate, that no human being alive today is omniscient, or omnipresent.    

Dictionary,
postulate = = suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.








++++++++


Tasmanian Tigers [thylacine] are thought to be extinct.

Dictionary,
thylacine = = a doglike carnivorous Tasmanian marsupial with striped hindquarters, probably extinct.

Q.
Can you, or anyone else, prove conclusively, today, that Tasmanian Tigers are extinct?

A.
No.

The extinction of the thylacine could be a likely proposition.

BUT AT THIS TIME, IT IS A PROPOSITION WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE [because of the vastness of the Tasmanian wilderness].


Logical proposition....

In an infinite 'universe' it is not logically possible to prove a negative proposition [i.e. to prove that something does *not* exist].

Whereas, in an infinite 'universe', it is logically possible to prove a positive proposition.



FURTHER....

Q.
If God has NOT revealed himself to a certain individual, can that individual, in an infinite 'universe', have a certain knowledge that [a] God does not exist?


Well apparently, you can muso.      

Quote:


I expect this is a multiple choice question Yadda.

A:. Scientists explain this phenomenon as occurring when the body has two sensations at once that creates dissonance that can give an individual the feeling of being out of body. They have also emulated the experience by using cameras placed at different angles that allows a person to see the body in two places at once.

B:It is an unexplained brain activity, which leads to a perception, that feels real, but is due to mechanical, electrical, or chemical, processes we just do not understand yet.

C:They are plain old hallucinations.

D:They are the work of an interventionist, supernatural, all powerful being, or "God", micromanaging our perceptions on an individual, moment, by moment, basis.

So while I can accept A, through C, I find D, to be the least likely, and most insupportable probability.

I am assuming that you are a D man Yadda, and that is fine for you, but you should keep in mind, that when you make that particular choice, you do so in spite of reason, not, as you seem to imply, because of it.

mozzaok wrote on Feb 10^th, 2009 at 8:56pm:




It is the story of my life moz.

This is the 'burden' i must carry.      




My experience is that my views are so often viewed by others, as un-'reasonable'.

And with the scales [of opinion] at about 100 to 1 against me, they must be right,  ....right?

And i must be wrong,  ....right?

After all, everyone else can't be wrong,  ....can they?





[Yadda 'reasons', a new 'reason'.]

Better just, to keep my opinions to myself, so that ppl won't think me to be a weird and un-'reasonable' person.

I'll keep my 'weird' 'reality' to myself.

[Yadda smiles]





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said by FD

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1233520005/5#5

No thanks.

Jefferson was a great man.

mozzaok wrote on Feb 11^th, 2009 at 12:25pm:


The fault lies not with the book, but with the reader. The Quran inspire's millions of people all over the world. It is full of pleny of charitable philosophies, as well as remarkable insight into the human mind, society and spirituality.

Only the ignorant and arrogant cannot see its beauty.

I think it is called brainwashing Yadda.

Mind you, some would only need an eyedropper and a cotton bud to complete that task.

Seriously, the whole behaviour of memorising a book, to recite parrot fashion, only further enhances the belief that Islam operates along the lines of cult behaviours.

Any ideology, that demands such mindless, slavish adherence, is by definition, a tool against personal development, and free thinking.