locutius wrote on Apr 30
th, 2009 at 2:35pm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_lifeBeliefs in extraterrestrial life may have been present in ancient India, Babylon, Assyria, Sumer, Egypt, Arabia, China and South America, although in these societies, cosmology was often associated with the supernatural, and the notion of alien life is difficult to distinguish from that of gods, demons, and such. The first important Western thinkers to argue systematically for a universe full of other planets and, therefore, possible extraterrestrial life were the ancient Greek writer Thales and his student Anaximander in the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.Predating Star Trek and Star Wars by a wee amount of time. The facination has been present for millenia. I understand your argument though. The greeks also discribed the first robots or animated autonomous machines, does the belief in the eventual perfection of robotics hinge on my enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult?
I would agree that belief in aliens is probably belief in supernatural entities transmogrified. Humans may have an innate predisposition to believe (at least for some time in their lives) in super-entities that exist, control the world and/or determine fate. And being most often depicted as humanoid indicates a tendency towards anthropomorphism when defining these super-entities.
If the past for you is a reasonable guide to the future, then observing improvement in most human creations from one decade/century to the next and inferring this improvement can in principle continue, would not necessarily rely on your enjoying Forbidden Planet as a kid or Blade Runner as a young adult.
locutius wrote on Apr 30
th, 2009 at 2:35pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30
th, 2009 at 1:48pm:
Because our presumptions go further than just life in its simplest form existing elsewhere in the universe but to include super-intelligent life that far exceeds our own, just like what James T Kirk reported in his Captain's Log.
My presumptions
don't. I think the universe is full of life at all stages of development. Some planets never achieving a sentient lifeform. Some planets with life that we may not immediately identify as life because it is too different and maybe sometimes too advanced. There may be lifeforms that exist as pure energy. Here on earth we have viruses that science scratches it's head over. As to civilisations being millions of years more advanced than out own, sure why not, but a civilisation may only have to be 1000 years more advanced than our own to seem Godlike to us. Some species could be much younger but further advanced because their environment is unimaginably overstocked with resources so conflict never evolved so leapt ahead. Notwithstanding the argument for ourselves that war has accelorated much of out technological, medical and social abilities.
But you said earlier :
Quote:Hopefully we can avoid meeting too many advanced beings with behavioural signatures like our own, we'll end up becoming the dispossed alcoholic hangers-on of the sector or exterminated like primative tribes before us.
Does that not imply that you presume super-intelligent life exists?
locutius wrote on Apr 30
th, 2009 at 2:35pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 30
th, 2009 at 1:48pm:
We have no proof of any of this, of course and no reason to believe that super-intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe other than the expectation that very big numbers means super-intelligent life. This mindset is in every way congruent with a deist's view of the existence of god.
I don't think it is even close to being the same thing at all. I give you exibit (a) Earth.
Congruent, I said.
You believe that surely because of all the big numbers (planets, suns etc) life, intelligent life, even super-intelligent life must exist.
Deists believe that surely because of all the order in the universe (galaxies, solar systems, stars, planets etc) an intelligent being must have started it all.
And the deists' exhibit (a) Order.
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