Australian Politics Forum - "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....

Yadda

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"Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Feb 18^th, 2009 at 11:46am

.

February 18, 2009
Sufi wants Islamic rule worldwide
* TNSM chief says Islam forbids elections, democracy
LAHORE: Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat Muhammadi (TNSM) chief Sufi Muhammad, who signed a controversial peace deal with the NWFP government on Monday, said he hated democracy and wanted supremacy of Islam over the entire world.
“From the very beginning, I have viewed democracy as a system imposed on us by the infidels. Islam does not allow democracy or elections,” he told Deutsche Presse-Agentur in an interview held a few days before the government accepted his demand of enforcing sharia in the region......

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\02\18\story_18-2-2009_pg1_8
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024891.php

Those poor muslims being victimised again, in their own nations, by the wicked Kuffar.

We Kuffar have forced democracy onto the ppl of Pakistan, and that was very wrong of us to do it.
/sarc off

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5244	Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,.... Reply #1 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 12:06pm North Korean dictator does not like democracy either so the taliban is in good company there.
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freediver

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Reply #2 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 1:25pm

To anyone who thinks Muslims will not use violence to undermine democratic governance:

Quote:

“Had the government accepted our demands in 1994, we would have not seen the violence we are seeing today,” he added. Sufi Muhammad’s son-in-law, Mullah Fazlullah, has fostered the violence in the name of Islam.

Sufi Muhammad said he was against shedding the blood of Muslims, however, added the government should have talked to the Taliban instead of taking military action. He pledged to work for complete peace in Swat if the government enforces Islamic laws, a demand which has now been met.

“I believe the Taliban government formed a complete Islamic state, which was an ideal example for other Muslim countries. Had this government remained intact, it could have led to the establishment of similar Islamic governments in many other countries,” he said.

In other words violence, or peace if they get to impose sharia law on people against their will - it's 'your choice'.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jim Profit

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Reply #3 - Feb 18^th, 2009 at 8:18pm

I'm not fond of democracy mself. For every one person that is informed and reliable, there's twenty hundred who are ignorant, slackjawed, hillbillies, picking at their belly button while at the voting booth...

Democracy promotes stupidity. Because when people are stupid, politicians get in easier. They don't have to be responsible, intelligent, or strong willed. They just gotta' be good looking, charming, say what people want to hear and do all the smokes and mirriors celebreties do. It's smacking disgusting...

The country should be ruled by the strongest, most brightest minds the world has to offer. The scientists and the military genderals should be incharge of the country. But such a form of government seems merely like a lovely fantasy at the moment...

Which is why I support complete and total anarchy. Better to have no government then a bad one I reckon...

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But I still believe there's something left for you and me.

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Yadda

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,
Reply #4 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 8:46am

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2009 at 1:25pm:

.....In other words violence, or peace if they get to impose sharia law on people against their will - it's 'your choice'.

FD,

Exactly.

The line goes,

..."ISLAM is peaceful. Therefore why are you complaining, when we only want to share our peace [impose Sharia] with you?"

And,

..."All of your cultural resistance to accepting Sharia ['peaceful' ISLAM], proves that it is you who are the violent ones. And therefore it is you who are responsible for the disharmony, and violence."

"If you would just stop resisting our implementation of Sharia in your society, you would enjoy 'peace' with us."

+++++++++++

How muslims define the words, which they use in their arguments, to support their philosophical and moral positions is important.

For example do you [as a non-muslim] REALLY understand, how ISLAM / muslims define words like 'PEACE', 'AGGRESSION', and 'TOLERANCE' ???

Dictionary
lexicon = = the vocabulary of a person, language, or branch of knowledge.

Google,
Islam Lexicon for Dummies
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Islam+Lexicon+for+Dummies&btnG=Google+Se...

Islam 101: A Lexicon for Dummies

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34806

EXAMPLE ENTRIES.....

Aggression: Muslims never committed aggression, they only rightfully proselyte. [Aggression] Comes only from Israel and the USA, or their Allies since no possible wrongs can be attributed to Allah, His prophet or His Slaves (Muslims).

Peace: Submission to Allah is the only peace recognized in Islam. Anything else is worthy of justified retaliation. --''When Muslims say peace, they mean non-Muslims should be subdued and humiliated to the extent that they have no strength to rebel. Peace, according to Islam, is therefore achieved through subjugation'' (Ali Sina). Many Islamic flags show weapons.

Tolerance: Anything granted to the dhimmies under Islamic rule. For this tolerance, they do have to be duly humiliated by the Jizhya. ''The religion of Islam is one of tolerance, therefore, if he recants his Christian faith, he will not be executed.'' Ansarullah Mawlazezadah, Trial judge in the case of Abdul Rahman, an Afghani former medical aid worker and Christian convert from Islam.

Useful idiot: Said of people not conscient of being manipulated in order to agree a political agenda. Those who are convinced by the medias and other influences that Islam is indeed a 'religion of Peace'.

+++++++++++

Here with clarity, ISLAMIST 'logic' and 'intent', is explained,

"......[resorting] to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of "opening" the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur'an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, CREATING OBSTACLES FOR THE DA'WA, ARE BLAMED FOR THIS STATE OF WAR, for the da'wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO RESIST ISLAM CAUSE WARS and are responsible for them.
.....Aggression is something only infidels do.
.....it is not seen as aggression or war when Muslims attack non-Muslims. On the contrary, it is seen as aggression when non-Muslims resist the Islamization of their lands and thus "place obstacles in the way" of the spread of Islam. They are defying the will of Allah.......subjugation to Islam alone can bring peace.....
......[To the ISLAMIST mind, 'aggression' is...] When non-Muslims do anything to preserve their culture and resist the Islamization of their country."
http://wolfgangbruno.blogspot.com/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html

cited here on OZ Pol,

"Girls, gaining a muslim 'education'...."

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226526640/0#0

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« Last Edit: Feb 19^th, 2009 at 8:54am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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abu_rashid

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Reply #5 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 7:48pm

Yadda,

Quote:

I have viewed democracy as a system imposed on us by the infidels. Islam does not allow democracy or elections

This is not correct, Islam does allow elections, but not democracy.

freediver,

Quote:

To anyone who thinks Muslims will not use violence to undermine democratic governance

Firstly, it's their own country, how dare they not like a U.S imposed government ruling over them? How terrible of them.

You've managed to convince yourself that a people resisting a foreign imposed government is in fact the horrible evil enemy within a country. Let's hope you can accept such 'wisdom' if your own country were ever taken over.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40517 Gender:	Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,.... Reply #6 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 7:54pm Oh, theres abu the consistant. Still banging his drum over a terrorist led infestation. Go away, we have the antidote. Freedom.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,.... Reply #7 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 7:58pm Quote: This is not correct, Islam does allow elections, but not democracy. care to explain how that works, I'm too tired to try and work it out.
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abu_rashid

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Reply #8 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 8:12pm

Grendel,

Electing a leader and democracy are not the same thing.

A democratic system is one in which the people are involved in legislating the laws of the country. If the people decide to legalise prostitution then so be it. Islam forbids such a system. Prostitution for instance is always illegal, no matter what the people decide. No party could ever run for election with such a concept, and implementing such a law would result in the removal of a government, under Islam.

However, in common discourse, democracy is commonly associated with the process of electing a leader, but the two concepts are not exactly the same. In fact forms of democracy exist where no leader needs to be elected at all, such as direct democracy.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,.... Reply #9 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 8:25pm Yeah, democracy is the worst form of government - except all the others, especially theocracy. Why? Because theocracy is practice is not government by god but by clerics, be they priests or mullahs.
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freediver

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Reply #10 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 10:36pm

Grendel, what he means is that they can elect a leader, but only approved Muslims can run for leadership. I think only Muslims can vote. And the winner of the election only has a mandate to impose Sharia Law. In other words, some people get to vote, but the outcome is the same. It's just a different person doing it. It pretty much defeats the purpose of an election, so I don't think they actually bothered with them very often.

Quote:

Firstly, it's their own country, how dare they not like a U.S imposed government ruling over them? How terrible of them.

You've managed to convince yourself that a people resisting a foreign imposed government is in fact the horrible evil enemy within a country. Let's hope you can accept such 'wisdom' if your own country were ever taken over.

Abu, isn't it in Pakistan?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,.... Reply #11 - Feb 19^th, 2009 at 11:56pm Oh dear... I understood that elections and democracy aren't the same thing, I'm not that tired. An election is a specific exercise of democracy... one cannot preclude the other.
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Lestat

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,....
Reply #12 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 8:51am

Grendel wrote on Feb 19^th, 2009 at 11:56pm:

Oh dear... I understood that elections and democracy aren't the same thing, I'm not that tired.

An election is a specific exercise of democracy... one cannot preclude the other.

BWAHAHA.

Oh dear, it does seem that you are that tired...or perhaps just a bit thick boofy. Cause you clearly have no idea what a democracy is. Then again, I would be very surprised if you did...you know, with your limited capablilities and all.

But its funny watching you try to explain it. Carry on, I need a good laugh. Cheesy

:D:D

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Yadda

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Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections,
Reply #13 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 9:22am

Soren wrote on Feb 19^th, 2009 at 8:25pm:

Yeah, democracy is the worst form of government - except all the others, especially theocracy.
Why?
Because theocracy is practice is not government by god but by clerics, be they priests or mullahs
.

Exactly.

'Theocracy' as practised in ISLAM, is not government by god, but a political tyranny, by clerics, be they priests or mullahs - - IT IS GOVERNMENT BY MAN.

GOVERNMENT BY MAN - which devout muslims claim they are opposed to.

But there you go again, another example of the 'duality' within ISLAM.

i.e.
'We don't endorse or support 'government by men', EXCEPT WHEN WE DO!'

There is an informative BBC page here, a graphic presentation [click on different parts of the graphic] which reveals the structure and tight control of political power within IRAN.....

It is all very incestuous.

The clerics [not Allah] decide, who can stand for political office, and who can participate in voting.

IRAN - GUARDIAN COUNCIL
[on the page that loads......] "Click on the chart.....to unravel Iran's complex political system"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/iran_power/html/guardian_co...

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2009 at 9:37am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21445 A cat with a view	Re: "Islam does not allow democracy or elections, Reply #14 - Feb 20^th, 2009 at 9:49am . Google, IRAN mullahs corruption http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=IRAN+mullahs+corruption+&btnG=Google+Sea... These Google hits, turn up some interesting information on these 'godly' men, and their government.
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