Australian Politics Forum - Backtracking on ETS scheme

mantra

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Backtracking on ETS scheme
Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 6:59am

We've got Penny Wong now backtracking on the ETS scheme with all sorts of excuses - although they sound good politically. She's blaming the Greens for Labor's woe in regard to the ETS, yet Labor relied on the Green votes to get them over the line. All sorts of deals were made for their preferences.

The Greens aren't happy about the massive subsidising of the coal industry over renewables, but Wong says we need this industry to stay in Australia because of job losses and what's the point of polluting some other country if they move offshore.

Quote:

Green groups believe the scheme, which aims to cut greenhouse gases by 5 to 15 per cent by 2020, is not ambitious enough and argue against the billions of dollars in adjustment assistance that would be given to big polluters such as the coal industry.

"This argument may be appealing and even righteous but it fails to grapple with the economic realities of the transformation we need to make," Senator Wong says.

Maybe Labor should have thought of that before they signed up to this and now it's going to be put in the too hard basket. What Wong & the rest of them don't understand is that if the same amount was put into smaller solar power plants & wind farms around the country, not only would it increase employment - it would reduce greenhouse gasses substantially.

The only problem is that the major political parties are controlled by the coal industry and if the subsidies stop and replaced gradually with alternative energy - there goes their profits.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/global-warming/get-real-wong-tells-greens-2009...

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #1 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 7:40am Increase employment... yes the great green myth. You put people out of work... a few get a job and that increases employment. I think not.
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mantra

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Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme
Reply #2 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 8:26am

Quote:

Increase employment... yes the great green myth.

You can't say that because the Greens haven't had a chance to implement their policies on alternative energy. Rudd promised a lot before he got in - and I seem to remember Garrett saying every house in Australia would eventually get solar power - instead we get toxic insulation batts.

It's obvious there would be increased employment if solar plants were set up all around Australia. The largest solar plant capacity today is 400 mw & in another 2 years should be close to 600 mw. More wind farms would certainly help - not only in construction, but maintenance as well.

What I do notice is there is an anti-Greens campaign going on at present - currently from the Liberals, but now Labor is starting it up. I hope it backfires in their face.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #3 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 8:35am Much Green policy was implemented by carr is NSW there were supposed to be heaps of forestry jobs.. guess what? No extra jobs.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49494 At my desk.	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #4 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 8:46am Quote: 5 to 15 per cent by 2020 Isn't that what they were targetting from the start? Quote: I seem to remember Garrett saying every house in Australia would eventually get solar power - instead we get toxic insulation batts. Retrofitting solar panels is a really really bad idea. Insulation is much better.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #5 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 8:55am If you are going to insulate you need to do walls and ceiling.
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skippy Ex Member	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #6 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 9:00am Retrofitting solar panels is a really really bad idea. Insulation is much better. [/quote] WHY? Why not do both?
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mozzaok

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Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme
Reply #7 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 9:08am

Well insulating roofs is always worthwhile Grendel, the whole house is obviously better, but the overwhelming majority of savings is in the roof.
If you can shade your windows properly, then that is your next biggest job done.

The scheme is a bit of a kill two birds with one stone effort, and obsessing about only ever taking the single purpose option, like the greens often do, ignores the complexities that governments must actually deal with, oppositions can always be noble, because they don't actually have to provide anything.

I don't know why FD is so down on solar, but I obviously disagree, and if his point is that it is more cost effective to build large scale, than domestic, well, of course that is right, but until that gets to the actual table, then domestic installs are still a positive outcome, in the interim.

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freediver

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Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme
Reply #8 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 9:13am

Retrofitting solar cells on rooves is the most expensive option. It is a waste of money. It means the real options that could make a really big dent in our emissions get looked over. It is worse for the environment and worse for the economy.

Quote:

but until that gets to the actual table, then domestic installs are still a positive outcome, in the interim.

They could get other options on the table just as quickly. they chose retrofitting solar because it involves a massive handout and people think they are getting something for nothing.

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mozzaok

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Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme
Reply #9 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 9:20am

I don't disagree FD, it is just that until they actually do get a decent scheme to the table, then domestic is all we have.

I hope they do develop the political confidence to engage in some decent infrastructure development, and you may well remember, the fact that the previous government absolutely refused to do so, is what I most disliked about the Howard government, their wilful resistance to actually invest anything in our country, and their promotion of pork barrelling middle class handouts as electoral candy, was a shameful waste of the opportunities the resource boom offered us.

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freediver

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Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme
Reply #10 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 10:35am

There are already plenty of options on the table, like wind. They could even install solar cells where they would be cheaper to install. It has nothing at all to do with lack of short term options. In fact it would be better to have to wait a few years and get more emissions reductions. The only reason is political - the handout factor. They could spend the same money elsewhere and get far more reductions, but not as many votes.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40775 Gender:	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #11 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 10:48am good on labor backing out of the ETS scheme. it got some votes, but is impractical. ditch it now before any more damage is done. hope they will dump kyoto also. hey, they are nearing what Howard said all along !! Notice how rudd was nowhere near when a policy is dumped ?? standard political move
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #12 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 11:20am Grendel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 7:40am: Increase employment... yes the great green myth. You put people out of work... a few get a job and that increases employment. I think not. How about putting people out of life? Sigh. I guess they could always follow along on Obama's lead.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #13 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 9:52pm Back to scaremongering muso... there is no definitive proof that man made co2 emissions is causing global warming or climate change... take your pick since you can't settle on one.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49494 At my desk.	Re: Backtracking on ETS scheme Reply #14 - Feb 23^rd, 2009 at 10:07pm You keep forgetting Grendel. Sound management is about managing risks, not demanding absolute proof.
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