Australian Politics Forum - Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla

tallowood

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #30 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 8:45pm

athos wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 5:09pm:

Who are these British fascists you speak of?

John Howard followers who now even don't hesitate to accuse PM Kevin Rudd of being Chinese spy, when the rest of the world price him as exceptional brain, diplomat and leader.
[/quote]

Mussolini was a silly Italian wog and former socialist not a British.

Why waste resources on mc when you people don't want to remember history of your own culture?

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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #31 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 8:47pm

easel wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 8:34pm:

Then why are so many people keen on investigating foreign cultures and and religions and adopting them, especially in this country?

There is a large interest in eastern religions and philosophy as well as new age thought prevalent in Australian society.

(investigating foreign cultures and and religions) and adopting them within the context of being Australian (or who they are). They can do no other.

(a large interest in eastern religions and philosophy) True. But as eastern practioners of Buddhism will tell you, the Buddhism practised here and elsewhere in the west is markedly different to the original. i.e. the 'foreign' religion or philosophy is adapted to Australian sensibilities.

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easel

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #32 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:09pm

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Have you ever thought that as a real (qualified ) diplomat, he recognises the fact, as the rest of pragmatic world does, that China is becoming the centre of the gravity of the economical world. In other words closer relation with China maybe means saving your arse when your fragile mammy Brittan is on the brink of collapse.
You should be proud of the fact that you have a knowledgeable and intelligent Prime Minister who can speak fluent Mandarin unlike any other western leader. Should it be considered as a sin or as an advantage?

I don't like Britain.

You know China has vast stockpiles of global currency and is relatively resource weak? They are already panicking due to the US dollar shift.

Rudd and the ALP are infiltrated by Chinese spies.

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i.e. the 'foreign' religion or philosophy is adapted to Australian sensibilities.

What like Feng Shui?

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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #33 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:25pm

easel wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:09pm:

What like Feng Shui?

I'd have no doubt if it was practised by non-Chinese peoples (particularly if it became widely popular), it would diverge from the original. Local superstitions would be incorporated into the rituals and perceived inanities which have special meaning only to the Chinese would be excised.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #34 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:42pm

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Didn't see it coming? Of course you didn’t. For you the Australia in 1980 was the story so far, the world into which you were thrown, and is now your golden age… Like the 60’s is to Gen X or post war to baby boomers.

Now, now Helian. I never said that the world I was born into (1980s) was Australia's golden age. Your words... not mine. In fact, I believe this period was our reckoning.

I don't actually think Australia had a 'golden age.' I think our entire existence prior to Gough Whitlam and Malcolm Frasier was our golden age.

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Don’t know if they convinced us we were lazy, as much as simply by example they changed the Australian definition of ‘hard worker’. Australia is now one of the hardest working nations in the Western world. A stark contrast to its former more than slightly disparaging epithet, ‘The land of the long weekend’. Maybe the examples set by Mediterranean peoples rubbed off.

Well, that's funny, the entire world over perceives us as being lazy. We even perceive ourselves as lazy.

Although, I do agree that Australia is one of the hardest working, despite popular opinion. But I hardly think this is due to the introduction of southern European people. I think our work ethic has remained largely the same. Once the first generation of southern European workers died off, things went back to normal.

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Australia was changed almost beyond recognition by immigrant Mediterranean peoples.

For example?

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #35 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:45pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 8:10pm:

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 7:38pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 12:54pm:

Very few people who don't believe deep down that their formative culture is superior to all others.

I had trouble decoding what you wrote, Helian.

So please tell me if I'm correct or not.

...were you trying to say that every person thinks that their former culture is superior?

[There are] very few people who don't believe that their formative culture is superior to all others... i.e. Most people would tend to feel that the culture, which made them who they are, is superior to all others. It's a natural emotional response to otherness.

Well, that's all fine and dandy, Helian. But doesn't this viewpoint indicate that multiculturalism is a foregone conclusion? That it will fail miserably?

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #36 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:50pm

easel wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 8:34pm:

Then why are so many people keen on investigating foreign cultures and and religions and adopting them, especially in this country?

There is a large interest in eastern religions and philosophy as well as new age thought prevalent in Australian society.

Because as much as I hate to admit it, the multiculturalism supporters in this country are converting quite a few people through their propaganda. People are being convinced on a daily basis that their inherited culture is wrong and that adopting other cultures is right.

Thankfully though, Australians do indeed maintain a lot of their old cultural habits despite adopting a new practice such as buddhism. For example, it's still seen as normal to go barefoot through a supermarket on a hot day... oooo yeah... love that Australian trait. Cool

I missed it so much overseas.

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla Reply #37 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:57pm A lot of supermarket areas have banned going barefoot.
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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla Reply #38 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 10:33pm easel wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:57pm: A lot of supermarket areas have banned going barefoot. Seriously? Which ones?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #39 - Apr 12^th, 2009 at 11:57pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:45pm:

[quote author=helian link=1239229259/15#27 date=1239531026][quote author=DonaldTrump link=1239229259/15#23 date=1239529087]Well, that's all fine and dandy, Helian. But doesn't this viewpoint indicate that multiculturalism is a foregone conclusion? That it will fail miserably?

Only if you can't perceive MC as transitional for any given immigrant group.

Only if you view people as automatons incapable of rising above animal instincts to find things that are good in Australian culture... And only if you imagine that the children of migrants remain trapped in the world of their parents and can not and will not, despite their local accent, their own experiences and through interaction with assimilated Australians, identify themselves as Australians.

No culture or religion is immutable and monolithic. When transplanted into another culture, host cultural forces change the nature of the migrating ones... And of course, the cultural force is reciprocated, migrant on host.

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2009 at 9:18am by NorthOfNorth »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #40 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 8:10am

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:42pm:

Quote:

Didn't see it coming? Of course you didn’t. For you the Australia in 1980 was the story so far, the world into which you were thrown, and is now your golden age… Like the 60’s is to Gen X or post war to baby boomers.

Now, now Helian. I never said that the world I was born into (1980s) was Australia's golden age. Your words... not mine. In fact, I believe this period was our reckoning.

I meant golden in the context of your memory of the times. Things were as they were when you were born and now they are (as with most people regarding their youth), most probably condensing into a ‘golden’ memory which as the years go by will become more deeply golden. Also, being in your mid twenties, you’ll most likely remember these years as good ones too.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:42pm:

Well, that's funny, the entire world over perceives us as being lazy. We even perceive ourselves as lazy.

Yes, negative stereotypes about other cultures appear to have a longer shelf life than positive ones, although the stereotype didn’t appear in a complete vacuum of truth.

But Australians were far more inclined towards working a lot less 30 – 40 plus years ago than today and things have not gone back to those days.

How have Mediterranean peoples changed Australian culture? Café culture. Work ethic. The wine industry.

Most significant is the changing of Australian culinary tastes that have been revolutionised by Mediterranean (and Asian) migrants.

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #41 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 11:05am

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:50pm:

Because as much as I hate to admit it, the multiculturalism supporters in this country are converting quite a few people through their propaganda. People are being convinced on a daily basis that their inherited culture is wrong and that adopting other cultures is right.

Thankfully though, Australians do indeed maintain a lot of their old cultural habits despite adopting a new practice such as buddhism. For example, it's still seen as normal to go barefoot through a supermarket on a hot day... oooo yeah... love that Australian trait. Cool

I missed it so much overseas.

Would you currently be in Japan?

Going barefoot through a supermarket is a cultural trait? I thought it was a result of depression era poverty when shoes were only worn where necessary to extend their life. Were you wearing your best sh!t stained clothes that mum made you from sacks and a piece of rope for a belt?...

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #42 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 2:29pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 11:57pm:

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:45pm:

[quote author=helian link=1239229259/15#27 date=1239531026][quote author=DonaldTrump link=1239229259/15#23 date=1239529087]Well, that's all fine and dandy, Helian. But doesn't this viewpoint indicate that multiculturalism is a foregone conclusion? That it will fail miserably?

Only if you can't perceive MC as transitional for any given immigrant group.

Only if you view people as automatons incapable of rising above animal instincts to find things that are good in Australian culture... And only if you imagine that the children of migrants remain trapped in the world of their parents and can not and will not, despite their local accent, their own experiences and through interaction with assimilated Australians, identify themselves as Australians.

No culture or religion is immutable and monolithic. When transplanted into another culture, host cultural forces change the nature of the migrating ones... And of course, the cultural force is reciprocated, migrant on host.

I think the problem is that multiculturalism supporters and anti-racists like yourself are way, way, WAY too optimistic about human nature.

On the other hand opponents to it like myself are rather pessimistic of human nature and realise humans aren't perfect and are usually self-serving.

That's the main difference in our core way of thinking, Helian. Opinions of human nature.

Not all immigrant groups will see it your way Helian, and I believe multiculturalism supporters are completely nieve in thinking that every group WILL convert to the Australian way of life. It is possible for every person, of course, but does that necessarily mean they will do so willingly after a few generations? Plenty of examples show otherwise. You only need to look as far as the Balkans to see how badly this can end.

I liken multiculturalism supporters to dodo's. They're forever optimistic and approach humans with no fears of them being harmful. Dodo's of course were the cause of their own extinction.

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2009 at 2:55pm by ex-member DonaldTrump »

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #43 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 2:45pm

Quote:

I meant golden in the context of your memory of the times. Things were as they were when you were born and now they are (as with most people regarding their youth), most probably condensing into a ‘golden’ memory which as the years go by will become more deeply golden. Also, being in your mid twenties, you’ll most likely remember these years as good ones too.

I know what you mean, Helian. I doubt I'll be like that in the future, given how aware I am of this phenomenon.

When looking at Australia's history objectively, you would have to say Australia's best years were during the WAP.

Quote:

But Australians were far more inclined towards working a lot less 30 – 40 plus years ago than today and things have not gone back to those days.

How did you come to this conclusion, Helian?

Quote:

How have Mediterranean peoples changed Australian culture? Café culture. Work ethic. The wine industry.

Most significant is the changing of Australian culinary tastes that have been revolutionised by Mediterranean (and Asian) migrants.

'Work ethic' is debatable, Helian. I simply don't think that is true.

What you're basically saying, is that Italian and Greek immigrants have changed Australia's 'food and beverage industry.' Hardly changing Australia 'beyond recognition' IMO. Do you have other examples besides this?

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

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Re: Racist sexist attitudes in Cronulla
Reply #44 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 2:49pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 13^th, 2009 at 11:05am:

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 9:50pm:

Because as much as I hate to admit it, the multiculturalism supporters in this country are converting quite a few people through their propaganda. People are being convinced on a daily basis that their inherited culture is wrong and that adopting other cultures is right.

Thankfully though, Australians do indeed maintain a lot of their old cultural habits despite adopting a new practice such as buddhism. For example, it's still seen as normal to go barefoot through a supermarket on a hot day... oooo yeah... love that Australian trait. Cool

I missed it so much overseas.

Would you currently be in Japan?

Going barefoot through a supermarket is a cultural trait? I thought it was a result of depression era poverty when shoes were only worn where necessary to extend their life. Were you wearing your best sh!t stained clothes that mum made you from sacks and a piece of rope for a belt?...

Well, if it's a human activity acquired in social life... then yeah... I guess it is a cultural trait. Type 'cultural trait' into google and look it up.

My mum put my sacks and ropes in the wash. It should be ready by this afternoon.

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

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