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Churches oppose Islamic school (Read 43670 times)
locutius
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #150 - May 5th, 2009 at 1:50pm
 
Hell Sprint, I read that stuff for entertainment Wink give George R. R. Martin a go. Mature fantasy with little respect for the standard heroic storyline.

Now if you want to have a book burning then lets talk about the truely awful books, like "My Brother Jack", "Heidi" and films like "Titanic", "Casablanca", "Sound of Music", I mean really, I found myself rooting for the Iceberg and the Nazis.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #151 - May 5th, 2009 at 10:14pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 4:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 4:30pm:
and this is what happens to them:

http://sunninews.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/sufis-killed-in-pakistan-by-terrorists/

Remember, the punishment for apostasy is death by stoning under all four mainstream sunni schools of Islam, and shia. Sufis are considered apostates.

Approximately 20% of Muslims are Sufis (about 240 million).

The practise of Islam is not singularly monolithic and need not necessarily be practised in its bloodiest and intolerant forms.


Except that its bloodiest and intolerant forms account for nearly all of the muslims out there. And even the sufis believe in the peaceful overthrow of infidel governments. They are considered apostates, who themselves are marked for death, for advocating non-violence.

So 80% of all muslims want to violently destroy our societies, and the remaining 20% of muslims want to overthrow our societies peacefully - nothing to worry about then. You knucklehead.

Islam is not monolithic, you say - how is that useful. Its monolithic enough in its aim to destroy us, and that's as monolithic as it needs to be in my view.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #152 - May 6th, 2009 at 10:12am
 
Calanen wrote on May 5th, 2009 at 10:14pm:
And even the sufis believe in the peaceful overthrow of infidel governments.

The peaceful overthrow of infidel governments? Would that be through the democratic process?

If you're really worried about the threat of foreign cultural imperialism, you should be looking somewhere else for a more immediate threat.

Says Simon Winchester of the Chinese in an interview about his biography of Dr Joseph Needham 'Bomb, Book and Compass' :

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I saw a sign outside the Chinese Space Centre in a town called Jin Quan in Qansu provinence which said in English at the bottom of this list of achievements in space, "Without haste, without fear, we will conquer the world". These people have an enormous sense of self confidence, now they don't mean militarily [that] they will conquer the world - they mean a cultural conquest.

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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #153 - May 6th, 2009 at 9:40pm
 
Quote:
Islam is not monolithic, you say - how is that useful.


I think it is very useful. It's what keeps Muslims living in squalor, unable to fulfil their agenda. It's what keeps them killing fellow Muslims rather than non-Muslims. It's strength is also its weakness. The west has exploited this weakness for centuries, allowing us to undermine efforts to start a new round of empire building with very little effort on our part. Compare for example the lengths we had to go to to quash Napolean, Hitler, the Japanese, the Communists etc. We barely even noticed Islam.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #154 - May 6th, 2009 at 9:48pm
 
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We barely even noticed Islam.


We did notice them from about 700AD to about 1683. The divisions within Islam are minor, its like saying that Pepsi is no threat to Coke because Janice in Human Resources doesn't like Rachel in Legal over at Pepsi HQ.

Also, nobody on this board (except maybe abu who want say anything that will help the infidels) aside from me understands the differences. I do - and I can tell you, they are minor. The disagreements are about whether to give us a chance to surrender first, whether we should be executed or live as slaves, what war booty to divide amongst themselves.

No one save as for the Ahmidayas, says we dont have to be crushed. And they are like .5% of all muslims, and other muslims want to kill them for their non-violence blasphemy. Kind of odd when the religion of peace is supposed to be well peaceful - let's kill the people who preach that it is.

There is no preaching that Islam is tolerant within the Islamic world - that's only al taqiyya for our ears.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #155 - May 6th, 2009 at 11:14pm
 
The divisions between Catholicism and Protestantism might appear minor as well looking back... But it kept Europe at war with itself for over 200 years.

They've been looking for the guy who advised Bush that overthrowing a minority Sunni Head of State wouldn't cause no problem with the suppressed Shia majority 'cos they all just Islamian cockamimmies at the end of the day'. No need to worry about about the Shia regional power being drawn in to aid their Shia brothers in their moment of opportunity to exact revenge.

Also I believe what David Kilcullen has to say about the opinion of most Afghanis regarding the Taliban... The (the Taliban) are utterly despised by the vast majority of Afghanis. Their practise of extreme Islam revolts nearly all the population.
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2009 at 2:39am by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #156 - May 7th, 2009 at 8:28am
 

helian - there may well be some truth in your quote  - Quote:
David Kilcullen has to say about the opinion of most Afghanis regarding the Taliban... The (the Taliban) are utterly despised by the vast majority of Afghanis. Their practise of extreme Islam revolts nearly all the population


Fortunately it is only the extremists that are a concern.
Unfortunately it seems the vast majority cannot quell the extremists.
It is the unwavering extreme mindset of the taliban and others that give them the power.
We must have a similar mindset against them and exterminate them all
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #157 - May 7th, 2009 at 9:32am
 
Kilcullen is one of the most informed (and probably the most intertesting) authority on Islamism and counter-insurgency in the world. I have watched hours of his discussions about these subjects and he is as revealing about them as anyone could possibly be.

In one of them he discusses how he and his team deactivated areas in Iraq. Not by killing in the instance he described but by first capturing and holding senior al Qaeda operatives. When local Iraqi insurgents were captured, he would show them who al Qaeda really were. Local insurgents were duped into thinking they were fighting a righteous cause and that their noble leaders supported the fight. When they were shown who they were fighting for, what were they? Non-Iraqis, all serious criminals - i.e. murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc - most covered in tattoos, many of them dealing drugs on Iraqi streets and controlling crime gangs on the streets. This had the effect of shocking most Iraqi insurgents into realising who they were really fighting for - a common crime gang - and quickly coming to the conclusion that this filth was hardly worth the price of fighting or losing one's life for.

Kilcullen goes on to explain that in these kind of wars, an extremely small but sufficiently psychopathic element can 'infect' (as he terms it), a local population and they do it by exploiting whatever local problem is causing grief in a local area, which will generally have nothing to do with an Islamist agenda.

I suggest you watch/read as much as you can about David Kilcullen. He is so highly regarded everywhere within US Administrations and by the US public that, as one interviewer has put it, 'no foreign citizen has done more for the United States in time of war since Colonel Thaddeus Kosciusko helped an insurgent army liberate these shores some 200 years ago'.



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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2009 at 10:40am by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #158 - May 7th, 2009 at 10:37am
 
thanks helian, I will search kilcullen up.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #159 - May 8th, 2009 at 11:25am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 9:32am:
Kilcullen is one of the most informed (and probably the most intertesting) authority on Islamism and counter-insurgency in the world. I have watched hours of his discussions about these subjects and he is as revealing about them as anyone could possibly be.

In one of them he discusses how he and his team deactivated areas in Iraq. Not by killing in the instance he described but by first capturing and holding senior al Qaeda operatives. When local Iraqi insurgents were captured, he would show them who al Qaeda really were. Local insurgents were duped into thinking they were fighting a righteous cause and that their noble leaders supported the fight. When they were shown who they were fighting for, what were they? Non-Iraqis, all serious criminals - i.e. murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc - most covered in tattoos, many of them dealing drugs on Iraqi streets and controlling crime gangs on the streets. This had the effect of shocking most Iraqi insurgents into realising who they were really fighting for - a common crime gang - and quickly coming to the conclusion that this filth was hardly worth the price of fighting or losing one's life for.

Kilcullen goes on to explain that in these kind of wars, an extremely small but sufficiently psychopathic element can 'infect' (as he terms it), a local population and they do it by exploiting whatever local problem is causing grief in a local area, which will generally have nothing to do with an Islamist agenda.

I suggest you watch/read as much as you can about David Kilcullen. He is so highly regarded everywhere within US Administrations and by the US public that, as one interviewer has put it, 'no foreign citizen has done more for the United States in time of war since Colonel Thaddeus Kosciusko helped an insurgent army liberate these shores some 200 years ago'.







helian,

Summarising some of what is said above....

Many ppl in the world, who imagine that they are fighting for 'justice' and a 'better world', are being deceived.



I couldn't agree more.

And i don't believe that it is only muslims who are deceived, with their passions exploited ['paths'] for nefarious ends ['destinations'].

But i do believe that by a very long way, ISLAM is the most prominent ideology / political philosophy today, which is deceiving, many otherwise good people, to support a great evil in the world.




Deception is ISLAM's shield [its 'veil'].

Violence is its sword.


ISLAM uses both its shield and its sword most skilfully.

The 'shield' is presented first to a strong 'enemy', but it is the 'sword' which will be used to slay all of ISLAM's 'enemies'.

Where it still must, ISLAM still hides its 'sword' behind its 'shield'.





I too, will lookup more about David Kilcullen.





Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #160 - May 9th, 2009 at 10:31pm
 
Quote:
We did notice them from about 700AD to about 1683. The divisions within Islam are minor, its like saying that Pepsi is no threat to Coke because Janice in Human Resources doesn't like Rachel in Legal over at Pepsi HQ.


The empire was a threat. It was the same empire established by Muhammed himself. Since we took that away, the people have been exposed as petulant children unable to mount a serious threat. There is a very clear distinction. Prior to dismantling the empire, it was the major threat. Since it was dismantled, it has required very little effort.

Quote:
Also, nobody on this board (except maybe abu who want say anything that will help the infidels) aside from me understands the differences. I do - and I can tell you, they are minor. The disagreements are about whether to give us a chance to surrender first, whether we should be executed or live as slaves, what war booty to divide amongst themselves.


I think you are getting ahead of yourself there. Remember, while the Muslims argue about whether to take us as slaves or kill us, they are living in caves eating goats. Surely that matters. It is the ideology itself that prevents them, or allows outsiders to rpevent them, from re-establishing a dangerous empire. It creates a culture of sumpremacy that is great while you reign supreme, but worse then useless when you loose that power. Terrorism is new for Muslims as well as us. They used to wage conventional war extremely well. Resorting to terrorist tactics is an indication of their strategic postion.

Quote:
Kilcullen goes on to explain that in these kind of wars, an extremely small but sufficiently psychopathic element can 'infect' (as he terms it), a local population and they do it by exploiting whatever local problem is causing grief in a local area, which will generally have nothing to do with an Islamist agenda.


Sounds like Pauline Hanson biding her time.

Quote:
In one of them he discusses how he and his team deactivated areas in Iraq. Not by killing in the instance he described but by first capturing and holding senior al Qaeda operatives. When local Iraqi insurgents were captured, he would show them who al Qaeda really were. Local insurgents were duped into thinking they were fighting a righteous cause and that their noble leaders supported the fight. When they were shown who they were fighting for, what were they? Non-Iraqis, all serious criminals - i.e. murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc - most covered in tattoos, many of them dealing drugs on Iraqi streets and controlling crime gangs on the streets. This had the effect of shocking most Iraqi insurgents into realising who they were really fighting for - a common crime gang - and quickly coming to the conclusion that this filth was hardly worth the price of fighting or losing one's life for.


Entirely predictable when you read what Abu said about seeing the best in fellow Muslims and assuming they are right until proven wrong.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #161 - May 9th, 2009 at 10:56pm
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 10:31pm:
Quote:
Kilcullen goes on to explain that in these kind of wars, an extremely small but sufficiently psychopathic element can 'infect' (as he terms it), a local population and they do it by exploiting whatever local problem is causing grief in a local area, which will generally have nothing to do with an Islamist agenda.


Sounds like Pauline Hanson biding her time.

The difference being Kilcullen has spent 20 years researching Islamism, insurgency and counter-insurgency and is referring to trained and armed guerillas in one conflict exploiting the existence of another conflict which usually has nothing to do with their own... A phenomenon he calls infection.

Pauline?

Quote:
In one of them he discusses how he and his team deactivated areas in Iraq. Not by killing in the instance he described but by first capturing and holding senior al Qaeda operatives. When local Iraqi insurgents were captured, he would show them who al Qaeda really were. Local insurgents were duped into thinking they were fighting a righteous cause and that their noble leaders supported the fight. When they were shown who they were fighting for, what were they? Non-Iraqis, all serious criminals - i.e. murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc - most covered in tattoos, many of them dealing drugs on Iraqi streets and controlling crime gangs on the streets. This had the effect of shocking most Iraqi insurgents into realising who they were really fighting for - a common crime gang - and quickly coming to the conclusion that this filth was hardly worth the price of fighting or losing one's life for.


freediver wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 10:31pm:
Entirely predictable when you read what Abu said about seeing the best in fellow Muslims and assuming they are right until proven wrong.


Predictable in all complex theatres of war where infection has occurred, apparently. The term Kilcullen used was something like primary group cohesion.. which, he explained, means the victims of the secondary conflict if faced with the choice of a heavy handed response from a foreign army and the infectors will side with the fighters of that army because they are most like themselves in culture and/or religion even though they despise them... hence Kilcullen's term the 'accidental guerilla'.

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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #162 - May 9th, 2009 at 11:01pm
 
Quote:
The difference being Kilcullen has spent 20 years researching Islamism, insergency and counter-insurgency and is referring to trained and armed guerillas in one conflict exploiting the existence of another conflict which usually has nothing to do with their own... A phenomenon he calls infection.

Pauline?


They are both exploiting the same phenomenon. They validate people's invalid beliefs in a quest for power and money. If a dire situation arose hear, Pauline would be in the thick of it whipping up people's emotions and choosing a side. You don't have to be in a war zone to take advantage of it.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #163 - May 9th, 2009 at 11:07pm
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 11:01pm:
Quote:
The difference being Kilcullen has spent 20 years researching Islamism, insergency and counter-insurgency and is referring to trained and armed guerillas in one conflict exploiting the existence of another conflict which usually has nothing to do with their own... A phenomenon he calls infection.

Pauline?


They are both exploiting the same phenomenon. They validate people's invalid beliefs in a quest for power and money. If a dire situation arose hear, Pauline would be in the thick of it whipping up people's emotions and choosing a side. You don't have to be in a war zone to take advantage of it.

True. Sorry, thought you were equating Hansons opinions with those of Kilcullen.
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Re: Churches oppose Islamic school
Reply #164 - May 11th, 2009 at 9:58pm
 
Quote:
I think you are getting ahead of yourself there. Remember, while the Muslims argue about whether to take us as slaves or kill us, they are living in caves eating goats. Surely that matters. It is the ideology itself that prevents them, or allows outsiders to rpevent them, from re-establishing a dangerous empire. It creates a culture of sumpremacy that is great while you reign supreme, but worse then useless when you loose that power.


Think about how the empire was created. It was not suddenly an empire, but winning a large number of battles and conquering a large number of areas. From small places in the middle east, right across up into Spain.

Quote:
Terrorism is new for Muslims as well as us. They used to wage conventional war extremely well. Resorting to terrorist tactics is an indication of their strategic postion.


That's actually not correct. Terror has always been a tactic of Islam - what has changed is the technology able to be employed. You obviously couldn't have roadside bombs made with anti-tank mines and EFPs. While there were conventional battles, Islam was always very good at terrorising civilian populations and launching behind the lines raids.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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