Australian Politics Forum - Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???

Yadda

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Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Apr 26^th, 2009 at 9:35pm

Are recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers / refugees ???

Or are they merely determined queue jumping economic refugees [who are displacing real asylum seekers] ???

Definitions,

asylum [seeker] = = the protection granted by a state to someone who has left their native country as a political refugee. Ø shelter or protection from danger.

refugee = = a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

You have read the definitions.

Many muslim 'asylum seekers' [from countries like Iraq, Afghanistan], who transit to Australia, on boats from Indonesia, have been living for more than 5 years in Indonesia, a predominantly muslim nation.

It has been stated that some of these 'asylum seekers' have established themselves well enough, to have even started small businesses within Indonesia.

That would seem to suggest to me, that some of these people are not in any urgent need of evacuation, to a country of refuge, like Australia.

i.e.
If these people have been living within Indonesia for more than 5 years, can they still be categorised as asylum seekers / refugees ???

And yet, they are now leaving Indonesia, to come to Australia, because they are claiming that they are asylum seekers / refugees ???

Err, i repeat again, many of these muslim so called 'asylum seekers' have have been living for more than 5 years in Indonesia, a country which also presumably complies with their religious prejudices.

Surely these muslims would be happier, living among their cultural equals,
.....rather than coming to Australia, to endure the 'oppression' of the hated infidels?
/sarc off

So i ask, and shouldn't we all ask, why exactly, do these muslims need to evacuate themselves from Indonesia?

Are these people who [present themselves, as supposed 'refugees'] are coming to Australia, muslims, really suffering persecution, in Indonesia?

Wouldn't it make more sense, that genuine asylum seekers / refugees, would seek the nearest country of refuge, and a country which could easily accommodate their cultural / religious leanings???

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« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2009 at 1:28am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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skippy Ex Member	Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ??? Reply #1 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 9:32am You've got a point yadda, I wonder why all the jews came here after ww2 we arn't a jewish nation there were plenty of european countries they could have went to, why come here? Were they really refugees?
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mantra

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #2 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:20am

Many of the refugees that come here have not been allowed to stay at the Indonesian refugee camps. The Indonesians haven't bothered to process them - but towed them out to sea and they've headed over here. Last year there were 300 drowned, but they're the ones we know about.

The Taliban's tentacles extend as far as Indonesia and many of the Afghani asylum seekers have a price on their head and have only been looking for a safe sanction for their families.

Given those circumstances - many of us would do the same.

Of course we don't like the thought of asylum seekers coming here by the thousands - but they are still human beings who need help.

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mozzaok

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #3 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:21am

Quote:

Or are they merely determined queue jumping economic refugees

-yadda

Yes yadda, they are definitely economic refugees.

They have done studies which prove, that most people's standard of life, and earning capacity, are greatly reduced by being dead.

Mind you, living in a crowded refugee camp for a decade is a hoot, it is one long party.

Perhaps you could ease their suffering with a few bible quotes to brighten their day, it certainly gives me a laugh.

I love the way christians, who don't follow the old testament, and contend that only the jesus bits relate to them, quote the hell out of the jewish stuff.

Mind you the religious have always had a big blindspot, where personal hypocrisy is concerned.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40771 Gender:	Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ??? Reply #4 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:31am just stick to the topic mozzaok. yadda has a good point there.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #5 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:37am

Quote:

A TOP Sri Lankan official has played down the concerns of the Rudd Government that fighting in Sri Lanka could provoke an exodus of boatpeople from the country, saying most refugees were too poor to afford the journey.
Sri Lanka's high commissioner to Australia, Senaka Walgampaya, said most potential refugees in Sri Lanka did not have enough money to pay people-smugglers.

As the Opposition yesterday renewed its attack on the Government's handling of the boatpeople issue, Mr Walgampaya said most of the Sri Lankan asylum seekers who had arrived in Australia had been Sinhalese economic migrants.

Referring to those affected by the fighting in Sri Lanka, he said: "These people don't have the financial resources to pay anybody to smuggle them into Australia. The people who have the financial resources have earlier left these areas."

Both the federal Government and the International Organisation for Migration have warned of the potential for an exodus of refugees driven by the Sri Lankan military offensive against the separatist Tamil Tiger movement. The high commissioner's remarks came as authorities on Christmas Island prepared to process a further 54 suspected asylum seekers and their two crew, whose boat was intercepted by the navy on Saturday.

The boat, intercepted southwest of Ashmore Island, off Australia's north coast, is the eighth to arrive this year.

Its arrival comes amid a growing political debate about the cause of the surge. The Opposition claims the recent influx of boats is due to a softening of rules on refugees - a charge rejected by the Government and refugee advocates. Yesterday, Opposition frontbencher Andrew Robb accused the Government of putting lives at risk, describing the latest boat to arrive as a "death trap".

"It was filled to the gunwales with people," he told the ABC. "It was just a disgrace."

Deflecting questions about Coalition policy, Mr Robb said the onus was on the Government to stem the tide of boatpeople. "People are dying now. We won't be in government for at least 15 months," Mr Robb said.

Malcolm Turnbull has said reintroducing the controversial system of temporary protection visas must be high on the Government's agenda. But the Opposition Leader has stopped short of committing to such a move, amid fears it could provoke a damaging rift between moderates and hardliners in the Coalition.

Yesterday, Minister for Infrastructure Anthony Albanese said the increase in asylum seekers was consistent with global trends.

"Just as the Australian economy isn't immune from the global recession, the issue of asylum seekers seeking to settle in Australia is not divorced from what's happening globally," he said.

Meanwhile, the Department of Immigration has stepped up attempts to identify the dozens of asylum seekers injured when their boat exploded off Ashmore Reef, killing five.

Advertisements in the ethnic media invite people to call a hotline if they think they know anyone who was aboard the boat.

The Immigration Department said all calls would be treated in confidence.

Yesterday, West Australian Health Minister Kim Hames said it would cost tens of millions of dollars to treat 23 asylum seekers admitted to Royal Perth Hospital after the explosion.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25390392-601,00.html

so, the poor cannot afford to use people smugglers.
Seems a fair conclusion to me

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mantra

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #6 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:44am

Quote:

so, the poor cannot afford to use people smugglers.
Seems a fair conclusion to me

So what would you do Sprintcyclist if you were running for your life and you had enough cash on you to get onto a rickety old boat which might just make it to another country where you and your family would be safe?

Would you say to yourself - this isn't fair to those left behind who haven't got the cash so I'll just wait my turn. Regardless of whether they can afford a boat or not - most of them are still in the same desperate situation and legally entitled to stay here when they arrive.

Life has always been about the survival of the strongest unfortunately, not about what's fair.

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skippy Ex Member	Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ??? Reply #7 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:48am Mantra has a point sprint, I'm damm sure that I'd hop on a boat and take my chances in the same situation. Think about those poor animals who missed out on the cruise ship ark.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40771 Gender:	Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ??? Reply #8 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 10:50am mantra - yaddas point is probably correct. Those coming from inodonesia are not immigrants. they are not running for their lives they are queue jumpers.
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mantra

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #9 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 11:10am

Yes Yadda has made some fair points and I agree with him basically if that's the case, but what countries are willing to take them? Many Muslim countries have taken in millions of refugees compared to our few thousand and the influx is destabilising these poorer countries.

If some refugees are enterprising enough to establish small businesses to get the cash to get over here - couldn't it also mean they are a little brighter and motivated than others who don't. Many of these refugees are professional people whose families have been slaughtered and could possibly make a better contribution to Australia than many others.

I know they are considered "queue jumpers", but you don't hear the same complaints about the half million visa overstayers who rort our health services, work in the black market and scam and rob us at every move.

At least these people are accounted for and accountable and very motivated.

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skippy

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #10 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 11:20am

Australia 'barely rates' for refugees Amanda Hodge, South Asia correspondent | April 22, 2009
Article from: The Australian
PAKISTAN'S top immigration official has dismissed suggestions more South Asian asylum seekers are heading to Australia, claiming it barely rates as a destination compared with Europe.

Federal Investigation Agency immigration director Zafar Iqbal said many thousands of illegal immigrants each year used Pakistan as a launch point for Europe.

"Australia doesn't really figure" in the illegal immigration racket running rife in his country, said Captain Iqbal. "The networks are not strong enough to make people reach Australia. It's not very easy," he said.

"There is a route via Malaysia to Indonesia and into Australia, but mainly for Pakistani and Afghan illegal migrants their aim is to reach Europe."
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25368313-5013871,00.html

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Recent boat ppl, legitimate asylum seekers ???
Reply #11 - Apr 27^th, 2009 at 11:57am

good, I'm glad aussie is too hard to get to.

We should make it harder and less welcoming if any get here.

I don't want illegal immigrants coming here, they are not welcome.
We should not spend a penny on their health care.
We should not house them, educate them or assist them.

They came here voluntarily illegally, they can go back the same way.

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