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Environmental Twaddle (Read 1574 times)
Grendel
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Environmental Twaddle
Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:25pm
 
As we all know alarmists have taken hold of the environment debate and turned it into a complete farce.
Even here they overstep their bound.
Having been locked out of a tpoic ad seemingly having no right of reply here is my latest contribution to the leis that get passed off as truth by hypocritical lying alarmists.
My thoughts on a self-proclaimed "experts" opinion.

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1. Climate change is happening and humans are contributing to it.


But not much.

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2. Temperatures are continuing to rise.


And fall...

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3. The current climate change is not just part of a natural cycle.
 
Which is unproven twaddle...

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4. Recent warming cannot be explained by the Sun or natural factors alone.


So lets JUST blame CO2...  oh wait...  man made CO2.

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5. If we continue to emit greenhouse gases this warming will continue and delaying action will make the problem more difficult to fix.


If it is actually a problem at all.

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6. Climate models predict the main features of future climate, and have successfully modelled past climate.


And are flawed and have been proven incorrect - GIGO.
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muso
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #1 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:32pm
 
I started a thread for discussion in Environment Grendel. In the next week or so, I'll flesh out these headings. I just wanted to keep a thread with a simple explanation of the science behind Climate Change separate.

No censorship.

Please discuss in the thread provided, but I'd appreciate of you'd allow me to at least flesh out the headings before you respond. I'll probably be too busy writing up the explanation to be able to respond for the next week or so.
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Grendel
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #2 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:40pm
 
Don't care what you do or how you do it Bozo...

I put my point...  more accurate and truthful than your twaddle.

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Soren
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #3 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 7:16pm
 
I have enormous respect for science but I believe it is incapable of encompassing such an enourmous topic as the entire climate of the planet in the context of the solar system. It would be possibly comparable to understanding how the brain functions - the variables and interpretations are endless.

I had a look at sunspots and within 5 minutes I found scientific reference to both of these:
1. there has been significantly greater sunspot activity in the second half of the last century than in the first.
2. Last year, it was expected that it would have been hotting up after a quiet spell. But instead it hit a 50-year low in solar wind pressure, a 55-year low in radio emissions, and a 100-year low in sunspot activity. Astronimers are baffled.

Science, as I understand it, is a game of "disproof this hypothesis". This is its most admirable element and an obvious clue to its Enlightenment roots.

The political shrillness of climate change activists is an unmistakable sign of their anti-enlightenment reflexes and dictatorial, totalitarian heart. For this reason alone they cannot be right. They have the guiding principle of "don't dare disprove this hypothesis".

In my view, the sceptics are responding to this very obvious political propaganda.

So I think there is no argument about working towards clean and renewable energy for the self-evident reason that it is preferable to to dirty and finite energy (and would mean that we will be rid of OPEC). The rest is political more than it is anything else.




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mantra
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #4 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 9:48pm
 
Well said Soren. That's twice in a week that we've been in agreement. Wonders will never cease - although I would have said the following a little less harshly and applied a similar comment to the attitude of the denialists who can be just as shrill when their territory is threatened.

Quote:
The political shrillness of climate change activists is an unmistakable sign of their anti-enlightenment reflexes and dictatorial, totalitarian heart. For this reason alone they cannot be right. They have the guiding principle of "don't dare disprove this hypothesis
".

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Grendel
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #5 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 9:09am
 
I don't think the so-called "denialists" are very shrill at all mantra.

How can they be when you hardly hear them at all above the din of the alarmists.

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Grendel
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #6 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:16am
 
Oh dear, funny how cherry picking data and timescales, temperature scale, and avoidance of NATURAL trends can distort things eh.

Let's avoid that then.

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mantra
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #7 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:19am
 
I have to be fair Grendel.

I was having a hunt around and stumbled on some more moderate views by scientists which made sense to me, although I'm sure this information has been put up here before.

As Muso explained - we find fossils, buried cities etc. because our platelets continue to shift around etc., and moderate scientists claim these cycles and events will create warming and cooling naturally because they overlap and change so continuously and have done for so many of thousands of years.

We've had two general cycles of warming and cooling in the last century and temperatures have also been taken on the ground instead of the atmosphere.  We know that urban planning etc has expanded rapidly over this time, which has affected the upward ground temperature - but it has made little difference to the atmospheric temperature which is where all temperature should be measured. I assume it's the atmosphere affecting our weather.

Temperature readings from orbiting satellites show no significant warming in the 18 years they have been continuously recording and returning data.

Temperatures should also be taken over a long period of time - not just for the last century, which is what scientists tend to do. Now the only question that needs solving is how was temperature measured 2000 years ago? I won't put the CO2 maps up yet, but there has only been a .28% CO2 increase by man (questionable), which means that if we all dropped dead tomorrow - it would make little difference to the weather.

...    ...

Muso - I wasn't sure whether we were allowed to post on your new Climate Change thread.







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Darwin
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #8 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 3:24pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 19th, 2009 at 9:09am:
I don't think the so-called "denialists" are very shrill at all mantra.

How can they be when you hardly hear them at all above the din of the alarmists.


The graph is not a graph of temperatures but of the temperature ANOMALY. Notice this has been positive all through the years Sen Foolding thinks proves "global cooling." So temperature change has been positive in all those yearsof the graph

Temperatures are still going up! CO2 is still going up! Arctic is still melting more and more each Nhemis summer, ice accumulation is less and less each winter. Only a child tries to argue against those facts.
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Grendel
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Re: Environmental Twaddle
Reply #9 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 4:00pm
 
LOL thanks for your alarmist summary BTW...  only problem is that it is wrong.  Smiley

Oh perhaps you'd like to quantify how much of your dire concern is actually due to man-made CO2  I mean you wouldn't be alarmed for no reason hence you must know..

Oh and I already posted the hadcrut temps which show a clear downward trend in temperatures since 1998.

Oh and it was so nice of you to totally ignore the 2nd graph but hey that's what alarmists do.  Wink

Here's another just for you Darwin... since you are so adept at reading graphs.  LOL

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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2009 at 4:30pm by Grendel »  

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