ISLAM should be above criticism?

Please explain your position skip.



In a statement, a post, addressed to myself, skip said,

Quote:



skip,

Please explain your position.

Are you suggesting that ISLAM, because it claims to be a peaceful and tolerant religion, that ISLAM should not be criticised [when it is clear that the reality seems different, to the claims made by ISLAM's adherents]?

Perhaps you are saying that ISLAM isn't doing anything wrong?

Are you saying that some adherents of ISLAM are doing something wrong, but people shouldn't criticise ISLAM for their actions?

Under what circumstances, would criticism of ISLAM be justified, in your eyes skip?







Myself, i perceive an evil in ISLAM, and perceive an evil in the principles revealed within ISLAM's foundational documents [its 'scriptures', the Koran and Hadith].

And i see all of the lies, deception, vile, and violent actions, being perpetrated by people today, people claiming to be devout moslems, as being inspired by ISLAM, its doctrines, and its 'scriptures'.

And i am not saying this, in an uninformed, in a prejudiced way.

I am saying this, after informing myself, about what ISLAM promotes and condones.

But you are suggesting,

still

, that ISLAM and its adherents should not be criticised?

And you are saying, that my criticism of ISLAM makes me an 'advocate of terrorism' [my interpretation of your quote above]?

Why?

Why does being critical of ISLAM, make me an 'advocate of terrorism'???

Please explain.



















In my opinion,
ISLAM - IS A DEATH CULT.

Read, and re-read, these earnest words of admonition, from a respected ISLAMIC scholar, to all the 'brothers' of ISLAM,

"......in the words of Islamism's most influential thinker, Sayyid Qutb,
....."the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood." "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8802-2243871,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb



Why should ISLAM should be above criticism?

Please explain your position skip.

The point is that Islam is free to criticise and invent things to criticise about our society, but any criticism of the Islamic world is evil, hateful, intolerant and not permitted.

Free speech only goes one way, its free speech provided that muslims like the speech that is freely spoken. If not, then its hate speech and you cant speak it. Of course, muslims can be as hateful as they want in anything they say, about Jews or anyone else.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 1:24pm:


Sprint, history shows that when they ran out of infidels they do it to each other like sunnis vs shia etc.. So if you join them you going to cope it anyway.

Sorry to disappoint you

Yadda wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 11:31am:


You haven't said which bits Islam promotes and condones, Yadda.

I don't think Islam is inherently bad or evil. Islam is about changing who you are from the inside out. Spiritual and internal concepts like Jihad have been interpreted in a political context, and this is a very recent invention - it's also a fundamentalist corruption of what the Koran explicity states.

I'm not a Muslim. I can't understand why well-bred, healthy teenagers would want to go out and kill people they don't know - and then blow themselves up in the process.

I believe that, like most holy books, the whole virgins in paradise myth is meant metaphorically, but read by ignorant and ill-educated people as the literal truth.

I see this as a problem with the global nature of fundamentalism - not Islam itself. Fundamentalism is not only embraced by poor, backward people in developing nations. Most of the September 11 hijackers were university educated in the west.

George Bush also went to university for all the good it did him.

Fundamentalism is a largely modern phenomenon, brought about by a rise in communications technology and a growing alientation from social and political decision-making. It values hightened emotional states as opposed to rational thought. Fundamentalism, I think, rises from a sense of isolation.

Tribal loyalty is not fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is a new political discourse that moves beyond religion. Islam itself is not the problem.

I'm not saying that there aren't many pissed-off Muslims who are so angry at the west that they are prepared to kill anyone - Muslims included. I am saying that this anger has been kindled and propagated by interest groups.

It is a question of power, alientation and social control.

No one looks at the Old Testament and says that the Jews are intrinsically violent. Why do this with Islam?

Thank you, Yadda.

Looking at the links you've posted, it seems that you have informed yourself about Islam by reading anti-Islam sites. What do you expect?

A few years ago the IRA were commiting regular acts of terrorism. But no one blamed Christianity. They were called "politicals."

In the Cold War, groups like Bader Meinhoff commited regular acts of terror. Back then, everyone blamed communism - this used to be the global evil we had to defeat.

Now it's the Muslims.

Still, I aknowledge that Islamic militant groups have become increasingly organised over the last 30 years. The scope of certain Islamic factions has increased, and the idea of Islamic states throughout Asia has become popular. Now, people are increasingly prepared to die for these states as martyrdom has become a political tool.

This, however, is very different to saying that Islam itself is rotten to its core. To make that claim, I think you need to rely on theological sources - not political ones.

Yadda, the Old Testament has stuff just as bad as the above. I don't know if you have the same issue with Jews. Not many Jewish suicide bombers out there, I know.

No, I'm not a Muslim, but I do believe that Islam is about peace and tolerance. Islam united warring desert tribes by bringing them together under one god. The majority of intelligent, practicing Muslims are peaceful people - visit most Muslim households and you'll be treated with generousity and humility.

Once again, you are taking quotes completely out of context. This is what many Jihadists do. Wars are not faught by scholars, but by teenage boys. Many kids fighting in the Taliban, for example, have never been taught to read or write.

Do we say the Cambodians are inherently evil because of the Khmer Rouge?

The problem with things today is that we learn reality from TV and the internet. We don't rely on our own experiences as much. There are many kind, loving Muslim people and communities. When you've met or lived in Muslim communities, I'll believe.

The breadth and scope of Islamic culture is big. Indonesians are not the same as Chechneyans. There are a range of different Muslim cultures and people.

To say that they're all evil is to recreate the same problem as Muslim fundamentalists. They think we're evil, we think they're evil - it never ends.

Obama has the right idea. Change has to occur through mutual dialogue and understanding.

Karnal wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 4:12pm:


You are not wrong but you are wilfully or otherwise lopsided.Islam is a political ideology and you have to face it on those terms.

The Arab tribes were united and their internal wars were halted - only to direct their energies outward.

Indonesia is not the same a Chechenya in so far as Islam is interpereted. But the whole idea of having differently interpreted versions of Islam is anathema to - Islam.

Mutual dialogue - I don't see the Muslim outreach, the Muslim 'let's focus on what's good in Judaism, Christianity, western secularism'. Why is that? And in its absence, what do you mean by mutual?

To quote the poet, "what have the Muslims ever done for us?" (Apart from  enslaving Greek and Latin speaking Christians and getting them to translate ancient books into Arabic for them, invading and subjugating Christian lands for hundreds of years, waging incessant war against the west, maintaining and expanding the slave trade, in africans as well as europeans, and all the other nasty stuff?)

merou wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 11:13pm:



You guys have to move on from this reflexive 'it's all the same' mantra. It is lazy, it is untrue, it is corrosive. And of course it is stupid.

If you can't distinguish between ideas that so obviously, manifestly result in different modes of live then what is your claim to intelligence - the ability to discern difference? Being able to move your lips is not enough.


To say to everything that it is like 'anything else' is a great title for a great Woody Allen movie but to live all your lives according to this principles is taking praise way, way too far.