Australian Politics Forum - Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.

Yadda

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Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Jul 26^th, 2009 at 12:13am

ISLAM, moslems assert, that,

"There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet."

Google,
Allah's last prophet Mohammed
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Allah%27s+last+prophet+Mohammed&btnG=Sea...

Google,
"and Mohammed is his prophet"
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22and+Mohammed+is+his+prophet%22&btnG=S...

But in the very Koran, Mohammed himself confirms, declares, that he does not have the
attribute of a prophet.

The words of Mohammed.....

"Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear." "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/046.qmt.html#046.009

If moslems assert, that indeed Mohammed WAS a prophet, then please declare, what are the many prophecies, which Mohammed DID make, which also DID come to pass.

Surely these prophecies must be recorded in Mohammed's sunnah?

References please.

Part 064 - Is Islam a Cult or a Religion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH_diYWlAMs

Part 063 - No Compulsion in Religion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajKMsVie2B0

A full list of all, al Rassooli's "AhmadsQuran3" talks, available on YOUTUBE....
http://www.al-rassooli.com/ahmadsquran3/

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #1 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 12:31am

The test of a prophet, according to the bible....

Deuteronomy 18:15
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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abu_rashid

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #2 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:13am

Quote:

I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration

Umm... seems you don't really know what a prophet means? Muhammad (pbuh) was not omni-scient, which you seem to be confused to be an attribute of a prophet...

Let me just make it clear to you. Muhammad (pbuh) was a Nabi (Arabic word), the Blblical term is Nevi (Hebrew) and they are cognates of one another (Hebrew modifies the Semitic 'b' into 'v' in most dialects). Their primary meaning is that of someone who brings news, coming from the ancient Semitic root n-b-a meaning to inform or bring news.

Perhaps you should go and study your own Bible in it's actual language, so you might have a better understanding about the terms used in it, instead of using a translation of a translation of a translation.. after which you don't even seem to fathom the basic terminology used.

Quote:

proph⋅et
/ˈprɒfɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prof-it] Show IPA
Use prophet in a Sentence
–noun
1. a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.

(dictionary.com)

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abu_rashid

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #3 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:20am

Quote:

If moslems assert, that indeed Mohammed WAS a prophet, then please declare, what are the many prophecies, which Mohammed DID make, which also DID come to pass.

There are hundreds of predictions/prophecies made by Muhammad (pbuh) which came to pass.

One clear one which springs to mind was that which was revealed to him Surah ar-Rum (Chapter of Rome), in which it was prophesised that the Romans would defeat the Persians at the "lowest point"... and a few years later it came to pass, miraculously enough in a battle close to the dead sea (the lowest point on earth).

Muhammad (pbuh) also predicted that the Rashidoon Caliphate would last for 30 years after him, which it did, then he predicted it would be replaced by a hereditary monarchy, which it was, then he predicted that would be replaced by tyrants (who we have today). After then he predicted a re-establishment of the Caliphate, and we'll need to wait and see for that one, won't we

If you google his prophecies, you'll find many, which have all come to pass.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #4 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:26am

and how could I forget... the conquest of the capital of the Christian world, Constantinople, which we know came true, over 700 years after predicted

Quote:

"Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will her
leader be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!"

Narrated from Bishr al-Khath`ami or al-Ghanawi by:

Ahmad, al-Musnad 14:331 #18859 [sahih chain according to Hamza al-Zayn]
al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak 4:421-422 [sahih according to him and al-Dhahabi
concurred]
al-Tabarani, al-Mu`jam al-Kabir 2:38 #1216 [sahih chain according toal-Haythami 6:218-219]
al-Bukhari, al-Tarikh al-Kabir 2:81 and al-Saghir 1:306
Ibn `Abd al-Barr, al-Isti`ab 8:170 [hasan chain according to him]
al-Suyuti, al-Jami` al-Saghir [sahih according to him]

And what a wonderful leader Sultan Muhammad al-Fatih (the Opener/Conqueror) was,. and what a mighty Ottoman army he commanded....

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet. Reply #5 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:27am Here's a few more since I know you will not bother looking for facts yourself, since you're disinterested in the truth, and you flock only to falsehood.
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Yadda

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #6 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 3:21am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:13am:

Quote:

I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration

Umm... seems you don't really know what a prophet means?
Muhammad (pbuh) was not omni-scient, which you seem to be confused to be an attribute of a prophet...

Let me just make it clear to you. Muhammad (pbuh) was a Nabi (Arabic word), the Blblical term is Nevi (Hebrew) and they are cognates of one another (Hebrew modifies the Semitic 'b' into 'v' in most dialects). Their primary meaning is that of someone who brings news, coming from the ancient Semitic root n-b-a meaning to inform or bring news.

Perhaps you should go and study your own Bible in it's actual language, so you might have a better understanding about the terms used in it, instead of using a translation of a translation of a translation.. after which you don't even seem to fathom the basic terminology used.

Quote:

proph⋅et
/ˈprɒfɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prof-it] Show IPA
Use prophet in a Sentence
–noun
1. a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.

(dictionary.com)

abu,

Please, you don't have to redefine
English words for me, to make the 'new' meaning of those words, mean, what moslems, and ISLAM want them to mean.

I know very well, what the word prophet
means, and what the meaning of that word infers.

The word prophet, infers divinely inspired, human precognition.

Dictionary,
precognition = = foreknowledge

And yet, yes, it seems that among moslems, a religious 'teacher' may be deemed to be a 'prophet'.

Yet, i repeat, and assert, that, that meaning is not the essential, or commonly determined meaning, of the word 'prophet'.

Dictionary,
prophet (or prophetess) = =
1 an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God. Ø (the Prophet) (among Muslims) Muhammad. Ø (the Prophet) (among Mormons) Joseph Smith or one of his successors.
2 a person who predicts the future. Ø a person who advocates a new belief or theory.
3 (the Prophets) (in Christian use) the prophetic writings of the Old Testament. Ø (in Jewish use) one of the three canonical divisions of the Hebrew Bible.

And for confirmation of whom the God of the Bible defined as a prophet, i refer you again, to the words of Deuteronomy 18:22,
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass,...."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1248531193/1#1i

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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abu_rashid

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #7 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 10:23am

Quote:

Please, you don't have to redefine English words for me

Since neither the Bible nor the Qur'an were written in English, then I am not redefining anything. If anything, you're just using a translated term, which we know can never truly give the full meaning of the original intent, but just an approximation of it.

In fact if we look at the Hebrew concordance of that verse you quoted above from the Bible:

Lexicon Results
Strong's H5030 - nabiy'
נביא
Transliteration: nabiy'
Pronunciation: nä·bē' (Key)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/image.cfmimg=09356E087651B94F6B2313B4CE1BFA26B

They actually list the Arabic word Nabi as cognate.

Whilst the English word "Prophet" actually has the original meaning of interpreter or spokesman, and has just been used to approximate the meaning of the Semitic concept of nabi.

Anyway back onto the original falsehoods you were propagating, it is quite clear you are a false witness, and that Muhammad (pbuh) indeed prophesised future events and that indeed they came true. Once again, you are shown to be peddling lies and falsifications, which is a trait of the wicked one, not of a guided one.

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Yadda

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #8 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 12:23pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:26am:

and how could I forget... the conquest of the capital of the Christian world, Constantinople, which we know came true, over 700 years after predicted

Quote:

"Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will her
leader be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!"

Narrated from Bishr al-Khath`ami or al-Ghanawi by:

Ahmad, al-Musnad 14:331 #18859 [sahih chain according to Hamza al-Zayn]
al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak 4:421-422 [sahih according to him and al-Dhahabi
concurred]
al-Tabarani, al-Mu`jam al-Kabir 2:38 #1216 [sahih chain according toal-Haythami 6:218-219]
al-Bukhari, al-Tarikh al-Kabir 2:81 and al-Saghir 1:306
Ibn `Abd al-Barr, al-Isti`ab 8:170 [hasan chain according to him]
al-Suyuti, al-Jami` al-Saghir [sahih according to him]

And what a wonderful leader Sultan Muhammad al-Fatih (the Opener/Conqueror) was,. and what a mighty Ottoman army he commanded....

LOL

The fall of Constantinople to ISLAM, a fulfilled
prophecy of Mohammed?

LOL

Typical moslem logic at play, again.

abu,

If i were to predict that you would die, by losing your head.

And then, if i cut your head off, with a sword.

........WOULD THAT MAKE ME A PROPHET????

ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

"There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet."

LOL

I haven't yet looked into your other claims supporting Mohammed's prophet-hood.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21897 A cat with a view	Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet. Reply #9 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 12:55pm Yadda wrote on Jul 26^th, 2009 at 12:23pm: abu, If i were to predict that you would die, by losing your head. And then, if i cut your head off, with a sword. ........WOULD THAT MAKE ME A PROPHET???? ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! ......or a mere murderer?
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abu_rashid

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Re: Koran, declares Mohammed, NOT a prophet.
Reply #10 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 2:13pm

Predicting an event over 700 years in the future is a pretty clear poof if you ask me. The non-Muslims at the time laughed themselves to death when they heard that one, a desert nomad, conquering the centre of the largest empire in the known world??

Anyway, as I suspected, nothing will quench your thirst for vilifying and mocking the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh). You asked for fulfilled prophecies, but it wasn't what you wanted, and I suspected as such from the outset. This is because you lack sincerity. You don't want to know if he prophesised and if those prophecies were fulfilled, such facts don't concern you in the slightest. You're just parroting the same argument you read on an Islamophobic website and came running in thinking you'd found something. Not realising the good folks at answering-christianity.org had already smashed this one down long ago.

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