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Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying (Read 2275 times)
abu_rashid
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Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Aug 2nd, 2009 at 6:20pm
 
It's amazing how callous Christians can be, even to their own children.



Praying man let his daughter die
A US jury has found a man guilty of killing his sick 11-year-old daughter by praying for her recovery rather than seeking medical care.

The man, Dale Neumann, told a court in the state of Wisconsin he believed God could heal his daughter.

She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed.
...
Dale Neumann faces up to 25 years in prison

Neumann's wife, Leilani Neumann, was convicted earlier this year.

The couple, who were both convicted of second-degree reckless homicide, face up to 25 years in prison when they are sentenced in October.

A lawyer representing Dale Neumann said he would appeal.

'Faith healing'

During the trial, medical experts told the court that Neumann's daughter could have survived if she had received treatment, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.

On Thursday Neumann, who is 47 and studied in the past to be a Pentecostal minister, said he thought God would heal his daughter.

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," he said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

He also said he thought his daughter had had flu or a fever, and that he had not realised how ill she was.

Neumann's lawyer said he had been convinced that his "faith healing" was working, and that he had committed no crime.

The prosecution argued that Neumann had minimised his daughter's illness and that he had allowed her to die as a selfish act of faith.

They said the girl should have been taken to hospital because she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink.

Instead, an ambulance was only called once the girl had stopped breathing.

Source: BBC
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abu_rashid  
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Grendel
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #1 - Aug 2nd, 2009 at 7:42pm
 
I wouldn't have thought that comment was very appropriate from a Muslim who believes in a God, some say the same God, and surely this man's faith in that God is a good thing in the eyes of all God fearing Muslims.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #2 - Aug 2nd, 2009 at 8:35pm
 
Faith in God would drive one to get her treated, not to leave her to die.
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abu_rashid  
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Grendel
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #3 - Aug 2nd, 2009 at 9:11pm
 
No that's wrong...  faith in medical science would do that.

Evasion number one... down the toilet.

Are you saying Muslims have no faith in God?

Oh and BTW I'm thinking since I actually read the article that she wasn't left alone as you keep saying she was.  Tsk, tsk, tsk a dishonest Muslim.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #4 - Aug 2nd, 2009 at 9:27pm
 
Quote:
Oh and BTW I'm thinking since I actually read the article that she wasn't left alone as you keep saying she was.


Care to quote where I said "left alone"?

Quote:
No that's wrong...  faith in medical science would do that.


You're not all there mate.

Medical science is merely a 'craft' that God has granted us knowledge of. Faith in medicine is irrelevant without faith in God, but faith in God would lead one to have faith in medicine. Medicine in and of itself has no power over your life whatsoever, that doesn't mean utilising it is a waste of time and indicates lack of faith in God.

Kinda like saying faith in cooking is what people have who eat, whilst people who starve themselves to death have faith in God. You're a simpleton really.
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abu_rashid  
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Grendel
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #5 - Aug 2nd, 2009 at 10:21pm
 
ROTFLMAO

I know which one of us is "not all there" and believe me you wont see me in the mirror when you look for him.

Quote?  "leave her to die"  You do know what that means don't you?

Note to Aboo  the title of the article does not say "leave" her to die.

English as a 2nd language?
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tallowood
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #6 - Aug 2nd, 2009 at 10:47pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Aug 2nd, 2009 at 8:35pm:
Faith in God would drive one to get her treated, not to leave her to die.


Do you mean like islamic treatment of suicide belts or/and crimes of "honour"?
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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #7 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 8:30am
 

I'm with abu on this one.
That guy did the wrong thing. Proof being his daughter is dead.

he has a duty of care that he failed badly.
Everyone has a duty of care to a sick person.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #8 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 10:16am
 
Grendel,

Quote:
Quote?  "leave her to die"  You do know what that means don't you?


Nowhere did I say "leave her alone". I said "leave her" as in abstain from doing the correct thing to ensure she received treatment. Wasn't that hard was it?

sprint,

Quote:
I'm with abu on this one.
That guy did the wrong thing. Proof being his daughter is dead.


Good to see you're standing up for the right on this one.
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abu_rashid  
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #9 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 11:04am
 

What does this incident show ?

that newmann was so hyped into his beliefs that he put that before his daughers life ?
was it just really bad judgment ?

Quote:
They said the girl should have been taken to hospital because she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink. 

any one of those symptoms is serious in my books

does not sound as though he was in a church or he was actually a pastor at the time.
he had trained to be one.
perhaps his ego and wanting to show others his "absolute faith" made him blind to the facts and deaf to the comments of others.

Whatever, as an adult and her father he is responsible.
he should have plenty of time in jail to reconsider his actions.
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Grendel
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #10 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 11:07am
 
You idiot Aboo...  do you know what "leave" means?
I did quote you...
Even in the topic you claim...  "Christian left his daughter to die"
The actual article states.. "let his daughter die".  No leaving involved.
No matter how you look at it your usage implies LEAVING  ie removing oneself from proximity.  NOT THAT THAT WAS EVER MY MAIN POINT ANYWAY. All good Muslims like muddying the water and confusing issues don't they.  Cheesy
Good grief.

How about addressing the real issue then eh?

BTW Sprint...  no one is saying the guy did the right thing.   Roll Eyes
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skippy
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #11 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 11:13am
 
This should be a lesson to all you god botherers, people are more important than fictional characters.
I wonder how many here would put their faith ahead of their children, none I'd hope, but I'm not so sure.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #12 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 11:35am
 

skippy - I don't see why there ever should be a case of deciding between your child  (or anyones child)  and ones faith.

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mozzaok
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #13 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 11:40am
 
Abu is right, this is disgusting, and skippy is right, religious people all need to take stock of what they rationalise as acceptable, because of their religion.

Grendel is wrong, about, ..well as usual, Grendel is just wrong, and Tallo is, as always, irrelevant.
Sprint, as usual, tries his best to be absolutely fair.

We saw an unprecedented rise in evangelical idiocy in the US during the Bush years, let us hope that a saner US president, may reflect itself in saner actions from the american people, and that extremist christians are removed from positions of power and influence throughout US institutions, especially their military.

We do not want the US version of the Taliban,  the "fundie" christians, running the wars in the middle east, as evangelical crusades, even though the evidence seems to point that way now.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Christian left his daughter to die whilst praying
Reply #14 - Aug 3rd, 2009 at 12:07pm
 
This is a demonstration of absolute faith... An attempt to eliminate all sense of uncertainty by believing it possible to transcend the void of doubt that separates faith and knowing. The sense of uncertainty most often betrayed in the faithful by their using of past tense to suggest what the deceased would have thought of an event had they been alive.

It shows the mortal danger of complete surrender to faith and the arrogant assertion that ultimate doubt can be transcended. It's also a good argument for the sense of atheism, in that while disbelief that god exists does little or nothing to ease existential angst and the fear of death, it does disabuse the non-believer of the expectation that a divine force will mitigate the laws of nature in his favour.

Of course, no doubt Dale Neumann will argue that god did answer his pleas for his daughter's life, it's just that the answer was no... Such is arrogance of absolute faith.
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 12:23pm by NorthOfNorth »  

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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