Australian Politics Forum - Melbourne terrorist raids

skippy

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #15 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 8:12am

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 4^th, 2009 at 6:21pm:

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There you go again, compering a terrorist act in Australia with a war in Afghanistan, they are very different things.

Well they probably consider them to be equivalent actions. I don't imagine it's just a random thought, they most likely planned it as a retaliation for that. So probably not quite as removed as you'd like to think.

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I don't agree with the war in Iraq or the war in Afghanistan , Iraq as its a war for oil and Afghanistan because its a war we will never win and our army would be better served closer to home.

Good, and I'm sure a lot of Muslims don't agree with the alleged activities either. Probably more Muslims don't agree with these alleged actions than non-Muslims who don't agree with the Iraq/Afghanistan invasions/occupations.

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That said, the people arrested this morning were planning to kill soldiers in their barracks in a suicide invasion of those barracks, not in a war zone.

That doesn't really say much other than "Well we turned their country into a wartorn hellhole, so now it's legitimate for us to kill them there, but not for them to do it to us in our nice safe, secure, peaceful country".

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The people arrested this morning are not soldiers ,are they? maybe soldiers of Islam.

Well I really don't know how they see themselves, but I do know the whole "our soldiers wear uniforms, theirs don't" justifications are wearing a little thin. Covert Western soldiers do NOT wear uniforms, and often operate in disguise, that's part of war. No army/operative/soldier in it's right mind would stand out in the middle of an open field and broadcast it's location and say "Look we're real geneva-convention-abiding soldiers who wear uniforms and don't hide or take cover or operate covertly". Of course when your army is big enough and well equipped enough, you can provide the illusion that you do that, but on the ground it's just not the case. It's just not the smart way to operate in a battle situation.

Well if thats your attitude you should be locked up too you Muslim front bottom.I intend to send these thoughts of yours to ASIO, I hope they come and lock you up too. TRAITER bugger OFF

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Melbourne terrorist raids Reply #16 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:02am In other words "You're right, you make good points, which I can't counter-act".
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skippy Ex Member	Re: Melbourne terrorist raids Reply #17 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:10am abu_rashid wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:02am: In other words "You're right, you make good points, which I can't counter-act". That's the first smart thing you've written on this thread. Yes, I'm right , you are wrong, if you don't like the laws of this country you're free to leave.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #18 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:27am

You have not given any good explanation for any of your claims thus far skippy. And when you realised that fact.. you resorted to this childish 'dobber' threat. If you think I'm going to drop my views and succumb to your obviously wrong views, just because of some idle threat, then you're going to be disappointed.

You claim to be against the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, but it doesn't really seem like you are. If you were, then you'd realise the reason we are now under threat here in Australia is because of those wars, and because of the reckless and acquiescent policies of our former PM, in dragging us into those wars.

You should be blaming those who brought these problems onto us, and who put us all into danger to begin with.

Prior to our hanging off the coat-tails of Bush, and helping to invade all those Muslim countries, nobody even looked at Australia, or threatened us, even after East Timor. Now since then, we've had Bali, Jakarta, and now a few home-grown threats.

You need to stop leaving the wool on your eyes, and wake up to how naive and reckless we've been. It might be easier to just blame it on the boogey-men, but it won't get us anywhere.

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skippy

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #19 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:42am

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:27am:

You have not given any good explanation for any of your claims thus far skippy. And when you realised that fact.. you resorted to this childish 'dobber' threat. If you think I'm going to drop my views and succumb to your obviously wrong views, just because of some idle threat, then you're going to be disappointed.

You claim to be against the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, but it doesn't really seem like you are. If you were, then you'd realise the reason we are now under threat here in Australia is because of those wars, and because of the reckless and acquiescent policies of our former PM, in dragging us into those wars.

You should be blaming those who brought these problems onto us, and who put us all into danger to begin with.

Prior to our hanging off the coat-tails of Bush, and helping to invade all those Muslim countries, nobody even looked at Australia, or threatened us, even after East Timor. Now since then, we've had Bali, Jakarta, and now a few home-grown threats.

You need to stop leaving the wool on your eyes, and wake up to how naive and reckless we've been. It might be easier to just blame it on the boogey-men, but it won't get us anywhere.

Abu, unlike you I hate all violence, you seem to worry about it in other countries but ignore it in your own backyard.
You don't read very well son, I've said many times not only do I disagree with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but I blame Bush and Howard for them, no wonder you Muslims are so hated here, even when people support you and the injustice that occurs in places like Palestine, you whine and whinge that you are the victim.

Now, hopefully you've got all that poo out of your system and you are willing to look at the terrorist action in Australia for what it is, instead of some conspironut anti Muslim rant.
You see the problem with you and many of YOUR kind is that you even piss off the tolerant people in the Australian community when you write such poo, any wonder the extreme Christians want you removed from our shores.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #20 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:21am

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Abu, unlike you I hate all violence

You're not as unlike me as you seem to think. I too am opposed to all violence, and really dislike that it exists. I've always been a pacifist, and opposed to solving things with violence.

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you seem to worry about it in other countries but ignore it in your own backyard

Of course I worry about it here, but I might speak about it more elsewhere, because it's neglected. And we don't realise how it effects us here. That viewpoint needs to be said. We can hide our heads in the sand, and deny it has any link, but it does. If you think saying it makes me a traitor, so be it, I think you denying it would make you more neglectful towards Australia.

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even when people support you and the injustice that occurs in places like Palestine, you whine and whinge that you are the victim

How strange... the victim complaining they are the victim...

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no wonder you Muslims are so hated here

Muslims are hated.. by bigots... If you wanna put yourself in that category, your choice.

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Now, hopefully you've got all that poo out of your system and you are willing to look at the terrorist action in Australia for what it is

You still just don't get it. I'm looking at the causes and reasons behind things like this happening, you're just hiding your head in the sand... Insisting any inkling of looking at the reasons/causes is treason. You're in denial mate.

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skippy

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #21 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:42am

Abu,I agree that some people here think that what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan is a reason for them to become terrorists, but it isn't.
I think what is happening is wrong in the ME, but Muslims retaliating in a terrorist manner does that no justice, it just encourages hate.
You as an Australian should be disgusted in the actions of the terrorists here trying to change our way of life, or is that what you want too? do you not like Australia and its laws?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #22 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:46am

skip you're confusing justification with cause. Just because it causes them or provides reasoning for doing it, doesn't mean it justifies the act in and of itself.

Unfortunately some people will never allow themselves to make this distinction.. and think that entertaining the idea they're linked, instantly means excusing it. It does not.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #23 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:51am

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You as an Australian should be disgusted in the actions of the terrorists here trying to change our way of life, or is that what you want too?

That's a Bushism. The allegations against those arrested have nothing to do with changing our way of life any more than they are to do with 'hating our freedom'. They have to do with retaliatory violence.

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skippy

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #24 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:55am

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:51am:

Quote:

You as an Australian should be disgusted in the actions of the terrorists here trying to change our way of life, or is that what you want too?

That's a Bushism. The allegations against those arrested have nothing to do with changing our way of life any more than they are to do with 'hating our freedom'. They have to do with retaliatory violence.

So you'd prefer Australia NOT be a Muslim country where most people practice Islam?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #25 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:57am

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So you'd prefer Australia NOT be a Muslim country where most people practice Islam?

Of course I'd prefer it is. Just as I'm sure Mormons, JW's and many others wish the same for their religion. I believe Islam is the right guidance for all mankind, and therefore wish all to experience it, but that's got nothing to do with committing violence or forcing anything onto anyone.

Islam PROHIBITS forcing anyone to embrace religion.

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skippy

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #26 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 12:19pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:57am:

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So you'd prefer Australia NOT be a Muslim country where most people practice Islam?

Of course I'd prefer it is. Just as I'm sure Mormons, JW's and many others wish the same for their religion. I believe Islam is the right guidance for all mankind, and therefore wish all to experience it, but that's got nothing to do with committing violence or forcing anything onto anyone.

Islam PROHIBITS forcing anyone to embrace religion.

I don't think you're right, I'm an atheist but I don't want everyone in Australia to become atheists, tho I think people who believe in god are wasting their time, that's their choice. I respect your choice to practice Islam, but don't try and tell me I'd be better off embracing it.
You see that's whats wrong with any extremist belief Christian or Islam, you all think the rest of the world would be better off embracing what you believe, arrogant.
If you all just accepted that everyone believes their own thing and most people in this country don't give a toss about any religion, we'd all get on so much better.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #27 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 12:46pm

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I'm an atheist but I don't want everyone in Australia to become atheists, tho I think people who believe in god are wasting their time

So you don't think Australia would be better if everyone was atheist?

I know your view, as I previously held it, and all of my family members still hold it.

And Islam doesn't go around door knocking like most other religions. The Islamic way is to lead by example.

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If you all just accepted that everyone believes their own thing and most people in this country don't give a toss about any religion, we'd all get on so much better.

That's fine, but shouldn't stop me explaining Islam to those who ask, or presenting an example of Islam to people through my own personal character. That's how Islam spreads. And I don't see why you'd have a problem with that.

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Yadda

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #28 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 12:58pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 11:57am:

Quote:

So you'd prefer Australia NOT be a Muslim country where most people practice Islam?

Of course I'd prefer it is. Just as I'm sure Mormons, JW's and many others wish the same for their religion. I believe Islam is the right guidance for all mankind, and therefore wish all to experience it, but that's got nothing to do with committing violence or forcing anything onto anyone.

Islam PROHIBITS forcing anyone to embrace religion.

abu,

You know very well, that the statement that you made immediately above, is untrue.

These are just a few examples in ISLAM's own 'scriptures', justifying the violence of the Jihad, against non-moslems,

The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.0...

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.0...

"Allah's Apostle said, "Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one of whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah's Cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the 'killer who also get martyred (In Allah's Cause)." "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.0...

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.0...

The Koran...

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Calanen

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Re: Melbourne terrorist raids
Reply #29 - Aug 5^th, 2009 at 7:09pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 4^th, 2009 at 5:47pm:

Isn't that contrary to Australian law Calanen?

Are you promoting something that's clearly against Australian values/laws?

Yes that's the current law, now.

As of 2002, it was not the law but up until that point, it was. For 200 years before that, treason was an offence punishable by death. It still should be.

I imagine in terms of 'values' most Australians agree with me

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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