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Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution (Read 5492 times)
Darwin
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #15 - Aug 17th, 2009 at 4:43pm
 
Boy, some idio, errr delusianists here!

Climate change is real. Arguments like "the climate has always changed" have been comprehensively rebutted on knowledgeable forums like realbraveclimate.org.

They didn't even get the chance of a DD right! Rudd has said he is not interested in a DD, and some reasons for waiting till the normal time for a new election include:

1. A DD would lead to more Greens, Xenophon party and even idiot Fielding might get back due to low quota for full senate election.

2. With the higher quotas for a half senate election Labor stands a better chance of increasing its senate numbers at the expense of Greens, X, FF etc.

3. Waiting until the normal time would mean more of the 65+ age cohort would have died taking their high Coalition vote to the grave

4. The Libs will cave anyway in November, the Greens will still oppose and Labor will be able to make grounds at the expense of the Greens as well as the Libs

5. The ETS, a very good first step in reducing atmospheric CO2, is not a good candidate for a DD because much of it is regulation that the Senate could oppose

As well as needing to rein in CO2 for climate change reasons, the oceans are acidifying making life for shelled marine organisms such as zooplankton much tougher--their carbonate shells will be being eroded or hard to form due to the ocean acidity.

As a species we have pood in our nest. About time we cleaned it up!
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Grendel
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #16 - Aug 17th, 2009 at 7:46pm
 
Hey darwin found absolute proof that man evolved from apes yet?

No.
Oh how about absolute proof that cataclismic climate change is due to man made co2 emissions...  No?  Oh dear
Not a good batting average eh.

Post the proof.
Someone in the world would like to see it for once and hey you can get a Nobel prize for it.  I mean Gore got one for nothing.
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« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2009 at 9:15pm by Grendel »  
 
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mantra
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #17 - Aug 17th, 2009 at 8:52pm
 
Darwin wrote on Aug 17th, 2009 at 4:43pm:
Boy, some idio, errr delusianists here!


Roll Eyes

Quote:
They didn't even get the chance of a DD right! Rudd has said he is not interested in a DD, and some reasons for waiting till the normal time for a new election include:

1. A DD would lead to more Greens, Xenophon party and even idiot Fielding might get back due to low quota for full senate election.


Yes - both major parties stand to lose seats and are fearful - but the Greens and Xenophon are a good option to control the Senate. Rudd will give into Turnbull though and our oil & coal industries will get a lot more funding than Rudd intended. We need to take some of the power away from the major parties. If Rudd had any guts he'd go for a double dissolution.

Quote:
As a species we have pood in our nest. About time we cleaned it up!


The ETS isn't about cleaning up Australia & then the world - it's about collecting taxes to subsidise the debt that our foreign owned energy companies have incurred investing here. We can thank the last government for relaxing the foreign investment laws.
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Coral Sea
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #18 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 12:27am
 
Assuming AGW climate change theories are valid, it still does not make sense for Australia to rein in greenhouse gas emissions.  Australia is too small to make a difference globally on the matter, and should instead increase its greenhouse gas emissions to capture carbon-intensive industries from countries attempting to limit their greenhouse gas emissions.  Now is a great time to compete with Europe's chemicals, cement, steel, and aluminum industries for instance, as their costs have skyrocketed.

As part of this economic strategy, Australia should hire lobbyists in other industrialized countries to lobby for carbon taxes, permits, and quotas, while at the same time lobbying for open trade which does not involve carbon tariffs.  Tax rules in Australia should be changed to allow faster depreciation schedules on capital investment, to encourage rapid migration of carbon-emitting industries to Australia.  As Australia would also enjoy lower electricity prices, this would further encourage industrial growth.  Think of all the jobs and income Australia could create with this strategy!
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"General, these are American regulars. In a hundred and fifty years they have never been beaten. They will hold."&&-- Col. Preston Brown, C/S, 2nd Division, the Marne, June 1, 1918
 
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mantra
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #19 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 8:21am
 
That sounds like an even worse scenario Coral Sea. It would just complete the destruction of Australia and turn it into the planet's biggest quarry.

This is the wrong time to introduce an ETS while our economy is so unstable and it's going to get worse. The government should be concentrating on developing renewable industries the way Rudd promised in the 2007 election instead of placating the coal industry to such an extent.

While these multinationals are allowed to dominate the country, there can be no competition from other industries. Penny Wong is now even using Woolworths as a guide in predicting future food prices in the future resulting from an ETS. We can count on 100% imported food as well because this scheme will help our few remaining farmers go broke.




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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #20 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 8:30am
 
coral seas ideas are much better than kommander krudds populist rants.

aussie makes no difference to the human beings gas emissions, which are insignificant to natures own path she takes.

rudds putting a tax on air, but some big polluting coys don't have to pay.


Quote:
...........At the moment, coal provides around 80 per cent of the nation's electricity supply - 57 per cent from black coal, mainly from NSW and Queensland, and the rest from brown coal in Victoria.

That alone makes it an essential provider of Australia's base-load and peak-load energy needs for years to come, no matter the new commitment to 20 per cent renewable energy by 2020 or the increasing importance of gas.

But it also ensures that coal-fired power stations are regarded as the country's worst polluters, making them the most visual target of efforts to get that percentage down to help meet even the Rudd government's modest emissions reductions targets.

The difference is that while the generators will get $3.9 billion worth of free permits for their additional costs, the coal mining industry itself will get far less. The generators are complaining loudly that the compensation is inadequate and will impede necessary investment for power generation.

But the coal industry is, if possible, in an even greater state of outrage. In the domestic market, marginal mines are more likely to close sooner and others less likely to expand. That result is likely to be largely welcomed - except by those who lose their jobs - at least until electricity prices start to go up sharply.

Far less appreciated is the importance of black coal exports to Australia's national income as the world's largest exporter of coal. The Australian Coal Association is trying to remind the country that coal is actually the country's biggest export industry, with $46bn worth of exports last year. Exports take more than three quarters of the annual coal production.

That will continue to grow simply because of the increasing global demand for coal. But decisions to reduce the country's comparative advantage as an efficient producer and exporter by adding on costs not faced by its global competitors will clearly have an economic impact well beyond the individual mines. The US, for example, is not including coal emissions under its clean energy bill, passed by the House and still up for negotiation in the Senate.......

...


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25943547-30538,00.ht...
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« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2009 at 11:02am by Sprintcyclist »  

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skippy
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #21 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 12:11pm
 
The best thing Australia can do is concentrate on  renewable energy, if we aimed at a bigger target than twenty % by 2020 it would achieve more than any ETS.
In fact if the whole world concentrated on renewable energy instead of pretending coal can somehow produce a "clean" product it would go a long way towards addressing the problem.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #22 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 12:32pm
 

skippy - I agree. clean coal is a furphy.
ETS is just a tax on air, it really does not help any climate condition.

If a manmade condition exists that we can do anything about without resorting to living in caves.
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skippy
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #23 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 12:44pm
 
That's right sprint, if the government put all of that money into GREEN POWER instead of compensating coal producers who are conning us all with this clean coal mumbo jumbo the GREEN POWER industry could compete with the black/brown industry for real business.

The end game needs to be that we change the way we produce power, compensating coal companies to change from dirty coal to brown coal will do zip.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #24 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 4:05pm
 

Do I get paid carbon credits for planting trees??

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Grendel
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #25 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 7:53pm
 
"Dirty coal to brown coal..."   Grin Grin Grin
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Coral Sea
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #26 - Aug 19th, 2009 at 3:19am
 
mantra wrote on Aug 18th, 2009 at 8:21am:
That sounds like an even worse scenario Coral Sea. It would just complete the destruction of Australia and turn it into the planet's biggest quarry.

How would it do that?
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"General, these are American regulars. In a hundred and fifty years they have never been beaten. They will hold."&&-- Col. Preston Brown, C/S, 2nd Division, the Marne, June 1, 1918
 
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skippy
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #27 - Aug 19th, 2009 at 8:54am
 
Grendel wrote on Aug 18th, 2009 at 7:53pm:
"Dirty coal to brown coal..."   Grin Grin Grin


TROLL BOOFFEEEE TROLL BOOFFEEEEE TROLL BOOFFFEEEEE

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« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2009 at 9:42am by N/A »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #28 - Aug 19th, 2009 at 10:03am
 
troll...  nah, that's you skippee...
I thought it was a funny statement...  and said so.

Note the difference between a comment on a statement and a comment aimed at an individual for the sole purpose of trolling.   Cheesy Grin Grin
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skippy
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Re: Rudds ETS and the spectre of a double dissolution
Reply #29 - Aug 19th, 2009 at 10:07am
 
Grendel wrote on Aug 19th, 2009 at 10:03am:
troll...  nah, that's you skippee...
I thought it was a funny statement...  and said so.

Note the difference between a comment on a statement and a comment aimed at an individual for the sole purpose of trolling.   Cheesy Grin Grin


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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