Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 8:15am:



Who's surprised??!

There is no 'spirituality' in Islam. It is about obedience to an oriental potentate called Allan, not about the billowing, expanding spirit that recognises its own divine nature in the created world.

In Islam men are automatons. There is no free will and so there is no dialogue or relationship with the divine, there is no SHARING in the divine with Allan.


There is no spirituality in a creed that puts god so completely outside the world and removes him so completely from creatures. There is nothing in common between Allan and humans. Spirituality is not a word in Islam.


You are projecting, to speak like Freud for a moment.

Sprint, I provided you with quite a few rich spiritual quotes, as I guessed though you weren't interested in them sincerely. You merely opened the topic to invite flames and make claims  Islam is devoid of spirituality. Sure you play the innocent impartial referee of the thread, who quite clearly did ask people not to resort to such things, but you knew it was going to happen, and seem quite pleased with it.

Since your idea of spirituality is God having offspring, and hanging dead on a piece of wood... then for a surety you are not interested in anything Islam has to offer. It doesn't have fairytales, where you dupe yourself into thinking God can sacrifice himself (the omnipotent creator and sustainer of all existence sacrificing himself?).

In my estimation, words like "Nobody truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for his ownself" are the pinnacle of spirituality. What kind of purer heart can there be than the one which places the needs of his fellow man above his own? Sure we're going to hear the nonsensical rants about "This is only for fellow Muslims", likewise half of the 'spirituality' in the Bible is only for fellow Israelites, does that detract from it's spirituality though? And we both know that In practice Christians don't even manage to implement the lofty spiritual message of their book towards their own fellow Christians, let alone towards all of mankind.

Perhaps you could learn a thing or two from Muhammad's (pbuh) advice that "Whoever believes in God and the last day, should say what is good or keep silent"?? The number of times you've spoken ill of others, their religion and things they hold dear is uncountable. If you truly believe in God, and in a day of reckoning, then I think you definitely have a spiritual message to learn from these words of Muhammad (pbuh). One day, you _will_ be accounted for all you do here, for all you say, and for your treatment of others. Do you feel confident that your manner here is in line with the spiritual teachings of even your own book?

ROTFLMAO

Once again Aboo all you do is attack and once again it is Christianity you target.

Yet your ignorance of the religion is again unbelievable.

I'm Christian yet I don't believe in the Trinity.  You don't even understand the concept of the Trinity.
You don't understand the importance of Christ or His nature.

As for...  "Nobody truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for his ownself"  if I was a Muslim fundamentalist that might mean being a martyr.  No thanks.

You cannot truthfully expect anyone to believe that Muslims do not give preferential treatment to fellow Muslims.  You may say this is NOT so but it is a reality.

As for this... "And we both know that In practice Christians don't even manage to implement the lofty spiritual message of their book towards their own fellow Christians, let alone towards all of mankind."

Puhlease remove the mote from your own eye first.

As for Moe's secresy act...  "Whoever believes in God and the last day, should say what is good or keep silent"  no wonder we have problems with Muslim terrorists etc...  everyone is silent.  FFS...  try this instead.
Whoever believes in God and the last day, should tell the truth"

LOL

I am really a Christian    
That's the problem people keep telling you things and you live in denial.

To be a Christian you only have to believe in Christ and his teachings  

Actually the Trinity has only one God not 3...  the "expressions"  as you put it are descriptions of aspects of God's character/nature.  I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine either.  Catholics do.  You keep referring to Catholicism as Christianity.  All the churches that accept the Trinity doctrine have slightly different variations of it.  Just as Islam has different variations/interpretations within it.

If you understood the Trinity you wouldn't make the stupid statements you make about it.

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Liar liar pantaloons on fire.  
Clearly you don't understand Christ, Christianity or the concept of the Trinity.

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LoL well I expected that...  another pathetic example...  yes some Christians do wrong.  That is the nature of man.  But in Christian society those people are punished by the law...  not heralded as heroes of the faith as was just witnessed in Libya.  Kill hundreds of infidels and become a hero.

Under Islam becoming a martyr by killing innocents is acceptable under Christianity killing innocents is not. Killing anyone is not.  Muslims go to great lengths to justify why their victims are not innocent and they even look to fellow Muslims as acceptable collateral damage.  There's a special place in heaven for them.

Oh and no... I didn't twist anyone's words... you are brainwashed and in denial of the Truth.

Grendel,

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Don't get me wrong. If you don't believe in the trinity, then I think you are more of a follower of Christ than the trinitarians are, since they ascribe something to God which is just ridiculous. So if you are indeed not trinitarian, then I applaud you for that.

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Hence the reason I used the term 'expressions'.

It's still a form of polytheism though. Just like the Hindus believing all their idols are expressions of the divine being, is also polytheism. Or the Zoroastrians believing their dualistic God are just the two expressions of the one divine being, is also polytheism... and so on. 2, 3, 3000, they all fall short, even if only slightly of recognising the absolute oneness of God.

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Perhaps because they are Christians? In fact the largest and most historical group of Christians? Besides, Orthodox and most Protestant groups also believe in the trinity, which we've been through before.

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The vast majority follow the Nicean declaration, which we've been through before.

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Not on central matter like that. All Muslims unanimously agree that God is absolute oneness, having no co-gods, no co-expressions, no co-beings of any form, shape or description whatsoever. Anyone who does not believe this, is not a Muslim.

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For someone who doesn't believe in it... you sure seem to want to defend it. As I said, I understand it, I just still think it's polytheism. Anything other than belief in absolute unadulterated oneness, is polytheism. No matter how minor, abstract or esoteric it is, it's still polytheism. Jesus (pbuh) worshipped God, and trinitarians worship him. Therefore they place an intermediary between themselves and their creator. The fact they claim he is God, makes no difference, in fact that just clearly exposes their polytheistic beliefs. A true monotheist does not worship something which itself worships something, he worships only the one who worships no other.

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Nature of man, or nature of Christians? When Muslims do wrong, you seem to think it's about the religion, and not about the flawed human being... Bit hypocritical fi you ask me..

Either way, I merely wrote that, to indicate how childishly stupid yuor comment was. Think about it.

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When Western soldiers return home, after having killed, raped and pillaged Muslims, they get hero's welcomes too.. So nothing really uneven there.

Besides, the poor guy is dying, the Scots are indeed a merciful and noble people.

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This simply isn't true. Islam specifically forbids killing of non-combatants. Muhammad (pbuh) clearly forbade it in his sayings. Those who do so don't do it because they're flawed humans though right? It's because they're Muslims.. only Christians are afforded such a dispensation.

Actually Christianity doesn't say anyhting about killing of innocents, neither forbids nor condones... but the OT certainly does condone.

As I said, utter bovine faeces.

Come on, literary reviews from trashy tabloids? Lift your standards a little soren.

For every Faulk, there's thousands who've read the Qur'an (even in the insuffient English translations) and have been so touched and moved by it, have embraced Islam. Too bad you can only hear the Faulks of this world... otherwise you might get a more objective view.

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So I take it you've read it? After all, who would give such an authoritative review without actually having read it... Other than a complete dolt.

And I mean read it, not just come across a few selective quotes on jihadwatch...

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I have read it, and continue to read it daily. And compared to most Muslims I know, I'd consider myself fairly slack..

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I do prefer to read it in Arabic, not because I don't understand it, but because it's meaning is so much more intense in Arabic. There are very few archaic terms in the Qur'an. Most of the vocab used in the Qur'an, can be heard on al-Jazeerah or any other daily news channel.

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As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

Your eyes and heart are sealed, so it's not surprising it does not reach you. You are not interested in hearing what the Qur'an or Islam has to say from the outset, and made up your mind, probably long before you even heard a single verse of the Qur'an.

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I'm sure any book you can lay your hands on has something new in it. This statement just indicates how blinded you are by your absolutism. So when the Qur'an predicted the battle between the Romans and the Persians, in which the Romans won, that was not new? Was already known? When it explained the stages of foetal development that was already known? When it said the universe was expanding, that was already known? When it predicted the sun will one day collapse in on itself, that was already known/? I think not. I think you are indeed someone with a diseased heart. Consumed and overwhelmed by your own hatred and prejudice, so as to suspend all reason and logic from penetrating your view of Islam. I pity you.

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Well there is a paradox at play if you really believe that Abu.
That god could seal someone off from exploring new ideas, for that is the very thing that all religions demand from their faithful, and a profound reason why many thereby reject all religions as merely dogmatism.