CONTINUED FROM LAST POST.....







Not works, ....so as to 'prove' our righteousness.

Performing good works, to prove our righteousness, is having the cart, before the horse.

If man first, first, first, seeks righteousness [within his life], his works will be acceptable to God.

Psalms 40:6
Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7  Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8  I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9  I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
10  I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.


Psalms 51:14
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15  O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16  For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17  The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.


Psalms 34:13
Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
14  Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.
15  The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
16  The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17  The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
18  The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.


God's people in times past [the Children of Israel], began to imagine their own righteousness [before God], was being established [before God], was coming from their own hands [through the Mosaic covenant of sacrifice],

Romans 10:1
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.





What did Jesus say, about how to worship God?

John 4:21
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


It is good to worship God with righteous works, but such works should come from within our heart.

And not for the purpose, to demonstrate our 'religion', or to demonstrate our 'righteousness', to others.

Because, we, are NOT righteous.

Matthew 6:1
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2  Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3  But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4  That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5  And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6  But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.



My God does not say, of the world, as an encouragement to mankind,

"....All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

My God speaks thus, of the world,

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.





MORE.....

Yadda wrote on Oct 21^st, 2009 at 11:57am:


You should really stick to your own world view. You clearly don't understand others because you continually mischaracterise them. As usual, you believe in a cardboard cutout  - a caricature of an atheist, of a Muslim - I haven't seen your caricature of a Buddhist yet, but many Buddhists are atheist too.

Quote:


Do you honestly think that nonsense that you just spouted applied to Fred Hollows? or Helen Keller or Christopher Reeves?  (to name but a few)

Which particular people do you target who don't happen to believe in your God?

Do you include me in that list? - because I can assure you that I have a very active conscience and feelings of guilt if I do the wrong thing by omission or otherwise. I also speak out against injustice when I see it.

Yadda - we all know what's right and wrong. Christians do not have a monopoly on that.

- but people who blandly recite the party line are much more ready to commit atrocities than others - for the greater good that those who think for themselves. That includes those who act in the name of God.

Quote:


Now put that in your censer and swing it.  Sorry, but I find your post particularly unspiritual, disingenuous and feral.

Those people who continually point the fingers at others, generally have something disgraceful to hide themselves. I've seen these banners outside Baptist Churches mocking Athests and other 'Samaritans'. Their religion is obviously lacking something if the best they can do is to carp about those who don't share their beliefs.

Yadda wrote on Oct 21^st, 2009 at 4:02pm:


I'm glad you make that distinction, because the Baptist Church clearly does not. Your original post was guilty of the same style of bland generalisation that triggers religious persecution. Your post may have had innocent intentions, but it made me angry for that reason.

The world has too many .
- but it's by no means as black and white as you paint it.  

Quote:


I quoted the account of the Goan inquisition to illustrate my point that people who don't think for themselves and are driven by the agenda of an establishment are capable of some terrible things. In this case, they carried out their atrocities in the name of Jesus Christ. Christianity may have the intention of being a religion of love, but people are capable of turning it around to be a terrible thing. It is one of the darkest episodes of the history of your religion, and much as you would like to deny it, it is part of the history of your religion.


Quote:


I didn't even mention the Old Testament, much of which is either written and exaggerated after the event, or transcribed from oral traditions in the manner of chansons de geste (songs of heroic deeds and lineages). The Old Testament has more in common with Homer than it does with reality.  

Don't you agree? A theologian acquaintance tacidly accepts that point.

What concerns me more is rabble rousing

muso wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2009 at 8:01am:




2 Corinthians 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.



muso,

This is the world.

This is a place of deception, and, testing of spirits.

Some people [spirits within clay 'vessels'], many people, believe what they see before their eyes, i often do myself.

I'm just like everyone else here.

It is very easy to be 'taken in'.

But it does annoy me, when i see so many of my fellow travellers in this 'reality', portray falsehood, and lies, as TRUTH, and, visa versa.





Quote:



#1
I was just anticipating.


#2
I haven't read Homer.

But if by that, you mean that the Old Testament stories, and accounts, are myths, and legends, then, all i can say is that i can't know for sure.

And no-one can.

They could be [merely myths, and legends].

But i believe that the Old Testament stories, and accounts, are essentially true.





Nothing what we 'see and feel' [in this world, in this 'reality'] is what it appears to be.

Of that, i am absolutely certain.



Seek the TRUTH.

Never, ever, reject TRUTH, when you recognise it.

That is the only sure path, to true reality.




1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Yadda wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2009 at 11:15am:


Well chosen. That's one of my favourite quotations.

I share your frustration at people rejecting that which is obviously true. You can see some of that frustration in the Environment thread.

You probably mean well, but let's not demonise people just because they have different beliefs. We're all guilty  of that to some extent.

I never seek conflict. I alway seek resolution and understanding. In this world we need to treat people with respect.  There are decent people around of all persuasions, just as there are untrustworthy people of all persuasions.

Some people are unfortunately not trustworthy. They don't respect themselves, let alone anybody else. That's reality.

Quote:


You any good at hacking web sites yadda? I'll bet you're on the ASIO list.
Strange how much hate you show for people who don't believe in your fractured fairy tales.

Quote:




1/
LOL
No.
I have no 'talent' in that direction.

2/
I am sure that i must have come to their attention - because of my expressed views.

3/
You are mistaken, in attributing that form of malice to me.
I don't hate people for what they choose to believe.
What people wish to believe is, properly, their own business [choice], imo.







If i do hate some people [i'm only human], it is because of how some people choose to express their beliefs.

Within each of us, is a mental power, a thought power,
....a spiritual power.

Here on this little planet, our choices have no form, until we express them, physically!



IMO, we humans are spiritual beings [constrained within a form of 'prison'].

And we come to this physical existence specifically [i believe], to exercise the 'power' of choice [given to each of us, by God], in this physical existence.

Many times in our lives, we will make choices which we sometimes come to regret.

Our regret [for our poor choices],

demonstrates we are learning,

from our mistakes, imo.

Those of us who express no regret for our mistakes, demonstrate that we have 'no care'.

They refuse to recognise, the hurt they may be causing to others - THROUGH THEIR SELFISH CHOICES.



IMO, through the 'opportunity' of this life, by our choices, by sometimes making mistakes, and recognising, and internally acknowledging those mistakes, we demonstrate that we understand the consequences of our choices.






++++++






Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Does that [immediately above] sound like we must belong to a religion determined by men, to be 'accepted' by God???

People who believe such a thing are deluding themselves.

Why, do they wish to believe such a falsehood.


Acts 17:24  God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25  Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
.....
30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31  Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
32  And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

Before his death, in a parable, Jesus said,

Luke 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Galatians 4:1
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2  But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3  Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:


Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11  For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12  Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.


Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.