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How religious are Australians, really? (Read 3437 times)
Classic Liberal
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #15 - May 28th, 2010 at 9:19am
 
relativism:

1. there is no absolute truth. (except the statement "there is no absolute truth.")

2. all oppinions based on differring perspectives are equal. (except the oppinion that not all oppinions are equal, which is clearly a bigoted falacy.)

ahh relativism...
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #16 - May 28th, 2010 at 9:46am
 
"The man who tells you truth is merely relative is asking you not to believe him. So don't."
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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mozzaok
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #17 - May 28th, 2010 at 10:49am
 
I would love to know where you get your definitions from pender. The understanding of relativism is pretty standard stuff, which like anything, can be taken to ridiculous extremes, but pretending the extreme is the norm, is extreme in itself, isn't it?

What is funny is that the religious among us seem to be the ones that find relativism objectionable, whilst relying on the demand that we respect "THEIR" truth.

The sad answer to the original question is, TOO.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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muso
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #18 - May 28th, 2010 at 9:01pm
 
Classic Liberal wrote on May 28th, 2010 at 9:19am:
relativism:

1. there is no absolute truth. (except the statement "there is no absolute truth.")

2. all oppinions based on differring perspectives are equal. (except the oppinion that not all oppinions are equal, which is clearly a bigoted falacy.)

ahh relativism...


Well my version of relativism includes the understanding that "appropriate versus inappropriate" is superior to "good versus bad".  It's all about context.

I also believe that having 10 religions makes me more religious than a Christian - or is just that a bigoted fallacy?
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Soren
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #19 - May 28th, 2010 at 10:45pm
 
The bigoted fallacy is that 'my appropriate' comprehension of the pertinent elements is good while 'your inappropriate' comprehension of peripheral, if not outright impertinent,  elements of what you take to be the context makes your opinion bad.

This relativist crap simply shifts the hierarchy of values but of course does not, because it cannot, abolish them. The pretence of being hierarchy and value free is the offensive, lying heart of relativism.

That we are all speaking out of our stanpoint goes without saying. 'Here I stand, I can do no other.'




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muso
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #20 - May 29th, 2010 at 7:53am
 
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind."
(Mohandas Gandhi )

Morality is necessarily defined by a society, even when that society is predominantly Muslim or Christian. All that the religion does is to distort societal values.

The values of society vary significantly even from generation to generation and if we sampled it through the ages, we'd find that within a given society at a given time, it also depended very much on life stage, regardless of generation. In other words, attitudes change as we get older, regardless of which historical period we're looking at.

O tempora o mores! was uttered by Cicero as a crusty old man. We still have crusty old men condemning the morals of today and longing for the old days which were never quite as idyllic as they remembered them.

It might have been quite morally acceptable for a 2nd Millennium BC tribe to invade a city (eg Jerisho), kill most of its inhabitants and subject the women and children to slavery.

In the 21st Century, such an action would cause immediate intervention, especially if it was happening in an oil producing area.

As well as temporal relativism, even within a single religion, there is spacial relativism. Different societies have different values.

Morality is dynamic. That's how it is, that's how it has been, and that's how it will probably remain.
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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2010 at 10:04am by muso »  

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #21 - May 29th, 2010 at 1:09pm
 
It's not so much whether there should be a hierarchy of religious and/or societal values, but rather who determines the rank.
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Soren
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Re: How religious are Australians, really?
Reply #22 - May 29th, 2010 at 2:07pm
 
muso wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 7:53am:
It might have been quite morally acceptable for a 2nd Millennium BC tribe to invade a city (eg Jerisho), kill most of its inhabitants and subject the women and children to slavery.

In the 21st Century, such an action would cause immediate intervention, especially if it was happening in an oil producing area.




You mean immediate intervention in the sense of the massive international intervention in Darfur, Sudan?? That kind of immediate? That kind of intervention?

The funny thing is that morals do not change as much as you make it out. Otherwise neither Gandhi, nor Cicero (and a whole host of others) would still make sense to us.

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