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Are you saying that without kids then all deals are off?
Yes of course the kids should be looked after, but the very important and ancient responsibility that women once had of choosing a partner that will be there for the long haul becomes not so important when they can get themselves knocked up by any fleet footed bozo and have the law chase them up for cash. As a second, third or fourth thought, they might then find their "Mr. Responsible" who will then be burdened with their lack of responsibility for the rest of his life through no mistake of his own.

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Basically, you get more bang for your buck by making men the workhorses. That's what they're built for and that's what they do best.
Under the guise of "women's rights and fairness", it's been possible to force men to work their asses off for a non-existent family. How many women would be stupid enough to do that?

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I'm also being protective of women's right to be women. I doubt if it was some amazing leap in evolution that women have come to "talk a lot to be heard". They've always talked a lot, but now it's a male created law that we must listen.
What was the ultimate objective of that "cause" again? I missed it the first time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the goal has been achieved, so you can give up the ear-bashing now  . - insert Cartman: You must respect my authority!!i

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 10:25pm:


It was the very same movement that motivated the landless men to seek voting rights those few years prior.

Wiki says... "In most countries, full universal suffrage - with the inclusion of women - followed universal male suffrage by about ten to twenty years. A notable exception is France, where women could not vote until 1944."

It was about the right to vote Soren. Feminism is about the rights of women and not just suffrage.

Feminism was born after WWII as the women, having discovered the freedoms men took for granted, refused to give them up. This then grew into the huge movement that fought for equality for women as it became in the late 50s, 60s and 70s.

Actually, there are notable women throughout history and not just from the 18th century wanting for the rights than men had... I do not doubt that pre-history has such women also. Therefore, according to your rationale... feminism has been a thriving movement since end of matriarchy.

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I'm talking about the feminist movement, not a few notable women looking for equality.

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I didn't say Woolf was from the 18th century - I said that she was dead before the end of WW2, which is when you stated that feminism began. Do you deny Woolf was a feminist?

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Since when does an interest in class division determine whether someone is a feminist?

And to clarify on the 18th century feminism, Wollstonecraft wrote A Vindication of the Rights of Woman, one of the first books of feminist philosophy, in 1792.

Sappho wrote on Jan 13^th, 2010 at 7:07pm:

Antithetical philosophy, don't you mean?