Moved from the Isam board:

Abu, you said before that islam only permits the rape of female soldiers caught in battle, because they were assisting the men. However, this site seems to claim that traditional rape and pillage has divine support. That is, you kill the men then capture the women. It is not limited to female soldiers or co-combatants.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-rape.htm

It is against Islam to rape Muslim women, but Muhammad actually encouraged the rape of women captured in battle. This hadith provides the context for the Qur’anic verse (4:24):

   The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain.  They met their enemy and fought with them.  They defeated them and took them captives.

   Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers.  So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150)

Actually, as the hadith indicates, it wasn't Muhammad, but "Allah the Exalted" who told the men to rape the women in front of their husbands, which is all the more reason not to think of Islam as being the same as other religion.

There are several hadith in which Muhammad is asked for his opinion on how women should be raped following their capture.  This pertains to an episode in which his men were reluctant to devalue their new slaves for later resale by getting them pregnant.  Muhammad was asked about coitus interruptus in particular:

   "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?"  The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

As indicated, the prophet of Islam did not mind his men raping the women, provided they ejaculated within the bodies of their victims.

As one might imagine, Muhammad's obvious approval of raping women captured in battle, and his own personal participation as recorded in many places, is of intense inconvenience to the Muslim apologists of our time.  For this reason, some of them attempt to explain away these many episodes and Qur'anic references to sex with captives by pretending that these are cases in which women have fled bad marriages and sought refuge with the Muslims.  Some apologists even refer to them as "wives," even though the Qur'an makes a clear distinction between "those whom thy right hand possesses" and true wives (see Sura 33:50).

Beyond the desperation of the 21st century apologist however, there is absolutely nothing in the historical text that supports this rosy revision of Muslim history.  The women of the Banu Mustaliq were sold into slavery following their rape:

   "We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

In fact, female slaves were traded like any other simple commodity by Muhammad and his Muslims:

   "Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq 693)

Is it Muslim to sell one's wife for horses?  Clearly these were not wives!

More importantly, by definition a "captured" woman is not one who is fleeing her husband.  She is fleeing her captor (ie. the Muslim slave raider).  This hadith describes a typical raid, in which the women and children are captured as they are attempting to flee the attacking Muslims:

   “…and then we attacked from all sides and reached their watering-place where a battle was fought.  Some of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners.  I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children [escaping in the distance].  I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain.  When they saw the arrow, they stopped.  So I brought them, driving them along” (Sahin Muslim 4345)

The Muslim narrator (who happens to be Muhammad's adopted son) sees the women trying to escape (following the massacre of their men) and cuts off their route by shooting an arrow into their path.  These aren't women trying to seek refuge with the Muslims.  They are trying to avoid capture by the Muslim.

Earth to freediver, how long have I been saying that for. I posted a thread somewhere saying how Mohammed had killed the Jewish men and taken one of the Jewish women for his 'wife'. Abu then went on to say 'You cant prove there was any rape counsellor' or some such.

Yeah after hacking her husband's head off with a scimitar, and killing all her people - I am sure she *willingly* went with Moe the bad head (which is why he wouldnt let anyone paint him, he had a disease that made him ugly).

The women of the infidels are the 'war booty' that the jihadi get. That your right hand possess - remember that cryptic phrase in the Koran - that's your slave women that you get to bonk, and u get slaves by taking the women off the infidels in a jihad. All infidel marriages are automatically annulled in a jihad victory. So the Muslims can take their pick of the women to rape with a clear conscience.

Also, as to rape in marriage, a woman cannot refuse sex in a marriage from her husband - only for medical reasons and then she can only make him wait up to 3 days.

There is no such a thing as "proper" rape, not even if the woman was a soldier caught in battle, fighting alongside or assisting the men.

Anyone who suggests there is such a thing as "proper" rape, is not a man but an animal.

That sounds a bit better than the bibles position on rape

freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 6:29pm:

Probably a lot of priests

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 6:30pm:


Have you ever asked one?

Quote:


Does a husband need consent from his wife to have sex with her (other than the past agreement to marry him)?

Does a man need consent from a concubine to have sex with her?

What may Islamic troops do with a female soldier caught in battle?

What more evidence do I need than your goofy attempts at obfuscation in the face of these simple questions?

Quote:


Do any of these rules include the need for consent before having sex with your wife/slave?

falah wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 6:37pm:


We could take your word for this Falah or we could ask someone who knows about what is preached in Islam.
Quote:

That preacher says the woman has no right to refuse sex and you claim Islam does not condone rape?

Safiyya was married when Mohammad and his band of thugs attacked her tribe.
Her husband Kinana al Rabi was tortured and killed on Mohammads orders.
From Ibn Hisham-
"The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found,When he asked about the rest he refused to produce it so the apostle gave orders to al Zubayr al Awwam, Torture him until you extract what he has,So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead,then chopped his head off"

Right so Mohammad attacked her tribe ,stole all their wealth,killed all the men and somehow Safiyya consented to marry the guy who ordered her husband be tortured and killed.
Mohammad married Safiyya on the same day he tortured and killed her husband,muslims say he was a kind man who married widows.
Do you think a rational person will believe your cock and bull stories falah?

freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:


Freediver you keep lying that Islam promotes rape. Yet you haven't shown me the where the word "rape" or "force" appears in the Quran.

Islam orders good treatment of captives. A man who hit his female slave was ordered by Prophet Muhammed to free her as expiation.

Muawiyah bin Al-Hakam As-Salmi said: "I had a slave-girl who used to herd sheep for me. One day I discovered that a wolf had killed one of her sheep, and I'm a man from the children of Adam, I get upset like they get upset, and I slapped her in the face. Then I went to the Prophet who impressed upon me the seriousness of my act. I said, 'O Apostle of God, should I not set her free?'...He said: 'Free her...'
(Recorded by Abu Dawud, and also recorded with 'authentic hadeeth' status by Muslim)