Australian Politics Forum - Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #15 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 2:02pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 1:47pm:

i don't think it is voluntarily chosen at all.

It should never be seen as a banner of ones "sopiritual superiority", but it is often flown as such.
This is not a new thing, there have always been "religious snobs" who look down on "nonreligious" people.

eg, those that boast of going to church every week, visiting mecca every 3 years ...................

Do men and women not choose to become priests/monks and nuns, Sprint? There are plenty of lay roles in religion for those who choose to have family.

The fact is, if someone honestly feels so strongly about the welfare of others to forego sex and family, then their self-denial for the cause of self-abnegation is worthy of respect.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40763 Gender:	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #16 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 2:44pm many people were expected to become priests/nuns. they were essentially forced into it. fact is, there is no need to be celibate in order to help others.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #17 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 3:03pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 2:44pm:

many people were expected to become priests/nuns.
they were essentially forced into it.

fact is, there is no need to be celibate in order to help others.

Certainly in very Catholic countries it was considered an honour to have a nun or priest in the family. In very poor countries committing family members to monasteries was the only way for those family members to survive. In modern times, however, this has diminished.

Yes, celibacy is not a necessary prerequisite to help others... But when a stranger needs your help that takes you away from your sick child, where does your primary responsibility lie? Where would your heart be?

This was the terrible choice Gandhi made regarding his own family. His eldest son abandoned Jainism for Islam, became a criminal and an alcoholic and blamed his father for the lot partly because Gandhi was absent "saving India" when his son needed him most. He never forgave his father and the Mahatma bore that grief for the rest of his life.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #18 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 3:15pm

in many catholic countries one son went to the church, the next into the army, or vice versa, I can't remember.
i am sure there are other ways aside fro starvation that peolpe were forced into a monastry/nunnery.
the cruelty of nuns is legendary.

in modern times the numbers of nuns and monks has likewise dropped.

i don't at all agree with your dilemma there at all.
its a false dilemma yopu pose. it's an old cafflik argument

ghandis oldest son was a loser sook. i'ld boot the useless poo out of my house.
what a selfish immature wimp.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #19 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 3:37pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 3:15pm:

i don't at all agree with your dilemma there at all.
its a false dilemma yopu pose. it's an old cafflik argument

ghandis oldest son was a loser sook. i'ld boot the useless poo out of my house.
what a selfish immature wimp.

There is not much room for disagreement. Unattached persons with no dependents or property are obviously more able to devote all their time to unrelated others. They have an abundance of empathy (where they are true to their cause)... That being the primary prerequisite for selfless action... Of course, that doesn't mean there should necessarily never be a place for married people to serve others... And there are many married people who devote all they can in the service of others. But the more time they devote to others, the less they have for immediate family... Which is fine where their children are psychologically robust. Where they are not... well, they're going to need more help than they otherwise would.

It not just a Catholic argument... Unmarried religious can and do move to wherever they are most needed. This was the predicament Siddhartha's wife found herself in when he became Buddha abandoning her and their children for "the greater good of humanity".

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 3:15pm:

ghandis oldest son was a loser sook. i'ld boot the useless poo out of my house.
what a selfish immature wimp.

Who knows? Maybe you don't feel the paternal bond as strongly as the Mahatma. Or maybe you'd like to imagine yourself as a kick-arse existentialist.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40763 Gender:	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #20 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 7:08pm there's a LOT of room for disagreement. now you have dropped your false dichotomey, you go for a sweeping statement. helping others has nothing to do with making love. totally unrelated.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #21 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 7:15pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 7:08pm: there's a LOT of room for disagreement. now you have dropped your false dichotomey, you go for a sweeping statement. helping others has nothing to do with making love. totally unrelated. Self-denial of sexual expression is not about not making love.
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freediver

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #22 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 8:17pm

This reminds me of what Abu said about Saudi men. There is a shortage of women available for them (because of high dowries of course, nothing to do with having multiple wives). Also the women are 'protected' (iew not allowed out of the house). So the next best thing for the men is to have sex with each other. Apparently it happens regularly in public toilets. If only Islamic law was enforced properly, they could capture a foreign woman to have sex with.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40763 Gender:	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #23 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 8:17pm ddddddddduuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh what is it about then ? flipping pancakes on a hot girdle ?
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #24 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 8:21pm Focus.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #25 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 8:22pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 8:17pm: ddddddddduuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh what is it about then ? flipping pancakes on a hot girdle ? A hot girdle, Sprint? Not bad
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abu_rashid

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #26 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 10:37pm

Quote:

This reminds me of what Abu said about Saudi men. There is a shortage of women available for them (because of high dowries of course, nothing to do with having multiple wives). Also the women are 'protected' (iew not allowed out of the house).

I said no such thing.

You are so full of it fd.

Bring a quote or retract this garbage.

The sad thing is, this is the second time you've actually accused me of this, and you dont' even remember making this crap up last time.

This whole thread is typical of the Western habit of projecting their own sexual deviancies onto others, in order to try and tarnish their superior moral and chaste image.

Freud would have a field day with you bunch. Grin

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity
Reply #27 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 10:54pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 10:37pm:

Freud would have a field day with you bunch. Grin

Maybe, but in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia he would have yawned and said "Ja freilich... zis iss exactly vot I vood exschpect in a sexually represhed society... vere vomen are so severely cloistered und men are free to move mostly as zey please".

According to Sarah MacDonald, author of "Holy Cow", male prostitution is rife in Pakistani cities.

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Happy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 559	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #28 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 2:50pm NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 1^st, 2010 at 10:54pm: ... According to Sarah MacDonald, author of "Holy Cow", male prostitution is rife in Pakistani cities. Information not published by their Government of course. Old trick: if you don't say it, it didn't happen.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49204 At my desk.	Re: Afghan Men Struggle with Sexual Identity Reply #29 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 9:31pm Was it Malik?
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