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inciting hatred against Muslims (Read 13197 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #30 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 2:05pm
 
Yep all spot on, I'm impressed Smiley

Will just add to the one about thoughts coming down from God, this would also mean claiming prophethood, which would completely contradict the Islamic teaching that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final messenger, the seal of the prophets.
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #31 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 4:09pm
 

who said there will be no more prophets ?
oh, moh the murderer did.
the illiterate one.

bhah bhah bhah bhah
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #32 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 9:52pm
 
It has often crossed my mind that Abu might doing the same thing as Karnal, only more subtly, and not as funny. One day I'll check out MV to see what is going on.
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #33 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 11:50pm
 
Freediver, I don't think so. From what I've seen during my admittedly short time on this board, Abu is defensive of his religion because there are so many people here going to great lengths to insult it. He knows that most members are prepared, even enthusiastic to believe the worst of both him and Islam.

I could be wrong...but I doubt it.
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #34 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 12:13am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 11:50pm:
Freediver, I don't think so. From what I've seen during my admittedly short time on this board, Abu is defensive of his religion because there are so many people here going to great lengths to insult it. He knows that most members are prepared, even enthusiastic to believe the worst of both him and Islam.

I could be wrong...but I doubt it.



It takes no effort to be aware (it is not a matter of belief) of the worst aspects of Islam and the barbarity of many of its followers. Ignoring it is what takes a lot of effort.

Abu is an Australian convert and so he is intellectually and emotionally more committed than the accidental Muslim. If Islam could be left out of the conversataion he would be quite an OK person. But he is here as a matter of personal jihad, so Islam comes into everything, except discussions on IT.

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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #35 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 9:43am
 
Soren wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 12:13am:
It takes no effort to be aware (it is not a matter of belief) of the worst aspects of Islam and the barbarity of many of its followers. Ignoring it is what takes a lot of effort.


But it does take effort to see the good in others and risk challenging your own belief system.

It's very easy to play Uncle Scrooge.

This petty Islam argument has ben going on for years on this board - daily - and the same people continue to buy into it.

It's not clever, it's the same script playing over and over.

This need to lance others' boils - while you're covered in your own pus - is endless.

Let's call it for what it is - it's a game. There's no truth in it, no one else is converted by your own words. It's just a way to avoid cleaning the bathroom.

Allah Kazzar!



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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #36 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:13am
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 9:43am:
But it does take effort to see the good in others and risk challenging your own belief system.

It's very easy to play Uncle Scrooge.

This petty Islam argument has ben going on for years on this board - daily - and the same people continue to buy into it.

It's not clever, it's the same script playing over and over.

This need to lance others' boils - while you're covered in your own pus - is endless.

Let's call it for what it is - it's a game. There's no truth in it, no one else is converted by your own words. It's just a way to avoid cleaning the bathroom.

Allah Kazzar!

More, more metaphor, stormfront of dissent, cesspool of malignant lust, a bog of malcontent.
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #37 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 1:01pm
 
Yes, the unfortunate fact is that religion plays a dominant role in all our lives, even those of us who utterly discount it's doctrines and claims of supplier of moral values for our world, and therefore we must engage with it, as we would any force which impacts on our lives, if we seek to actively work to improve that life.
To engage we need to try and understand religion at a level greater than that of just the blind acceptance, which they all require.
We need to dispassionately examine just what they do contribute to our society, both positive, and negative.

What we see in here is the plethora of people who are concerned at the range, and degree, of negative elements that the Islamic religion brings to our world, and unfortunately that often elicits a somewhat irrational lashing out at all things Islamic, which is probably more counter productive than we would wish for, if we are to address the ways that we allow religions to impact on our societies, and try to steer those effects away from the negatives, and towards more positive outcomes.

Now all religions make similiar demands, for respect, and tolerance, for "their" views, but when deciding just how far we should go in acquiescence to that demand, we should closely examine just what that religion is bringing to the table, and at the moment, Islam is bringing a lot of conflict, and fear, and we should not be coerced into denying that, but we should perhaps be more systematic in how we try to deal with it.

We must step back from politically correct madness of accepting dangerous and threatening behaviour from a group because they claim it is their religious right to behave that way.
We just need to be true to our own modern principles of equality and fairness, and apply criteria for what is acceptable behaviour on those grounds alone, even if it makes some religions uncomfortable.
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #38 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 6:50pm
 
I agree Mozza. We must combat the unjust aspects of Islam without discarding justice. We must give them freedom and choice without taking it away from them.
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #39 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 7:27pm
 
Mozza, I agree with most of what you said in your post, but I think a lot of what's happening around the world with Muslims at the moment is reactionary. The civilian people of Bosnia, Chechnya, Kosovo, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon - and they're just the ones who come immediately to mind - have suffered terribly at the hands of stronger nations in the last couple of decades. This breeds a sense of frustration and helplessness among all Muslims.

Did you hear about that kid with the Lebanese background that died in a car accident the other day while on his way to school? A facebook page popped up almost immediately so people could leave their condolences for the family of the boy, but it was inundated with disgusting racial slurs. Really offensive stuff. It ended up turning into a Leb v Aussie thing, which was incredibly sad and inappropriate.

We complain that minorities won't integrate, but we don't give them a chance while we still identify 3rd generation Australians from Lebanese backgrounds as 'wogs'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Muslims feel like they're being persecuted which pushes some of them - especially young males - toward fundamentalism.


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Soren
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #40 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 9:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 6:50pm:
We must give them freedom and choice without taking it away from them.



Up to a point.

We must not give them the freedom to practice their beliefs as they see fit, as they interpret it, without regard to how it impacts on us.

And right there is the rub - no self-respecting Musulman will take advice from infidels on how to practice islam.





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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #41 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 9:27pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 7:27pm:
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Muslims feel like they're being persecuted which pushes some of them - especially young males - toward fundamentalism.





This is really and old 'n tired nonsense. They are not fundamentalists. They simply take Islam seriously. That's all there is to it. Musulmans are in conflict with everyone they come into contact with. Of course, by your reckoning the reason is that everyone is persecuting and oppressing them. But with almost everything concerning Islam, it is the other way around.

"The endless plaint of Muslim victimization is a cynical ploy by those who wish to rule, rather than be ruled. The Muslim in non-Muslim countries typically enjoys more freedom than he does at home. And that is his complaint. He is not free to force women to walk a pace behind him, to beat his children and murder his daughters if they disobey him, and to know that all non-Muslims are beneath his feet. And what good is freedom to him if he cannot have these things?

Tolerance humiliates the Muslim, for in his storied past it was always he who had the choice to extend tolerance to the Kufr who were his social and political inferiors. The Muslim does not wish to be tolerated, he wishes to be obeyed. He does not want his beliefs respected in a plurality of beliefs, thereby equating them with the horrid beliefs of those he despises. He wishes that Islam alone be recognized as a true and unique belief, as the one true faith for all mankind. For by recognizing this, he becomes superior through it."


Muslims bombed westerners in hindu Bali. In 2002, a year before. There were no oppressed and presecuted Muslims. But they were peeved that Catholic East Timor was given back to the East Timorese, with Australian help. To them, once a place is occupied by Islam, it is muslim land, no matter what the demographics.

The US saved the skin of Muslim Bosnians and Kosovars from Christian Serbs and Croats in the '90s. Yet is was attacked by muslims in 2001.

The Muslims just sentenced in Sydney - they were not oppressed or prosecuted in any way. As the judge said, the ringleader 'led a blameless life' until his arrest.  The Muslims who bombed London were not oppressed. The oppressed Muslim, lashing out because that' all he can do, is nonsense of the first order. You have to be a fool to swallow it.







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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #42 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:11pm
 
Soren, how many Muslims do you know? Most of the ones I have met are moderate, hard working people who were as horrified at 9/11 as they later were at the invasion of Iraq. I say most, not all because I've met some asshole muslims too - just like I've met asshole christians and atheists.

Hatred and fear of islam and it's followers serves a purpose.

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Soren
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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #43 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:20pm
 
What? It only counts if it's presonal experience? I have to personally know the bali bombers?
You are saying, in effect, that I should not necessarily believe the traffic lights unless I have been involved in a traffic accident.

Quote:
Hatred and fear of islam and it's followers serves a purpose.


Being afraid of crossing at red lights serves a purpose.


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Re: inciting hatred against Muslims
Reply #44 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:37pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:11pm:
Soren, how many Muslims do you know? Most of the ones I have met are moderate, hard working people who were as horrified at 9/11 as they later were at the invasion of Iraq. I say most, not all because I've met some asshole muslims too - just like I've met asshole christians and atheists.

Hatred and fear of islam and it's followers serves a purpose.


Muslim criminals analyse the situation better than most:

Amir claims that Britain's underworld will soon be completely dominated by Islamic gangs - and he says the West's paranoia over terrorism is to blame. "People don't bugger with us because they think we're all in al-Qaeda," he explains. "Our status in the criminal hierarchy changed literally the day the Twin Towers went down. From then, Asians have been associated with terrorism. People, including other criminals, think if you're Asian you'll blow up a Tube train or bomb an aeroplane.  In the past 20 years we've capitalised on that. If we're going to be thought of as extremists, why not use that fear? The reality is that Asian gangs don't give much of toss about religion, but with Islam comes fear, and with fear comes power.

"Through religion we speak the same language, live in the same areas, go to the same schools and can even use mosques as a safe place away from the police or other gangs. If you bugger with a Muslim gang you'd better be able to run fast or hide well, because they will come back at you in numbers."

The Sun discovered that most of Britain's prisons are dominated by Muslim gangs.

We spoke to a former prisoner we will refer to only as Steven, who was repeatedly approached by prison imams - Muslim priests - and asked to convert. Steven, who is British-born and white, rejected the approaches.

He says: "When I went inside the Muslims offered me help from top lawyers on the outside who would fight to get my sentence changed, if I joined them. I always resisted, but you have to understand how tempting it is to convert. First, you have their protection. You're totally alone in prison when you get there, and if you can't look after yourself life is hell. You're beaten, robbed and bullied.

"Second, every Friday Muslims are allowed prayer meetings. This is free time away from the guards, so they can plot, make new contacts and often discuss anti-West ideology. Muslims also get better food. They have money sent in for their kitchens from the Muslim community outside, and they get special Halal dishes stipulated by Islam. Then, when a converted prisoner finishes his time, he leaves as an even bigger criminal with an entirely new contact book of Muslim criminals to do business with."

Steven, who has spent time in eight prisons, adds: "Where the Muslim gangs come into their own is shifting drugs. If a white gang from London buys a kilo of coke, they then have to sell it. You can only sell your gear if you have contacts. The white gang will only know a few people in their area and won't trust or be trusted by other gangs. They won't deal with Eastern European, black or Asian gangs. But the Muslim network is vast and stretches up and down the UK, so they can shift drugs extremely quickly. That makes the money-making potential of a Muslim gang a hundred times that of a British or European gang."

Drug-dealing and credit card fraud are the areas in which London-based Asian gangs are most active. In fact, some dealers get so busy that even their mobile phone SIM cards become a commodity.

Steven says: "A drug gang's number can be worth hundreds of thousands. Say they have 100 punters phoning that number every day asking for a fix - that means thousands of pounds of business.  The SIM card of that phone can be sold to another gang because the junkies who phone don't give a s**t who is dropping off their crack or smack, they'll just keep calling. I've heard of SIM cards selling for up to £250,000."

According to Amir, Asian gangs start early. He says: "If you go to school in an ethnic area you either join a gang or end up bullied, in some cases to the point of being killed.  So to avoid a life of hell a kid joins a gang. Once you're in, life is easy - no more beatings, people to talk to, stuff to do. After school you graduate into more serious gang activity. You've got no qualifications because you've spent your school years resisting authority, and suddenly you need to make money.

"A boss can make up to £8,000 a day running a gang of 40 workers drug-dealing or scamming credit cards, and a worker can make £1,000. With the police getting more intelligent and busting people more, money is getting harder to make. Ten years ago, Asian gangs would go to war with Yardies and white gangs. But now, we've got London all sewn up, so the only people we end up warring with is each other. We have no one to compete with other than our own people, so Muslim gangs are starting to fight.  Muslims have this country under control. Nobody can touch us."
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/25939
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