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For soren (Read 4770 times)
abu_rashid
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For soren
Mar 15th, 2010 at 11:20pm
 
Thought you might like this one, since it quotes your namesake Smiley



Bashing Islam is Freedom of Speech Criticizing Israel is a Hate Crime


By Mohamed Khodr* | Sabbah Report | www.sabbah.biz


"We sent thee not, O! Muhammad, save as a mercy to all the people. Say, O! Muhammad: "It has but been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God: will you, then, surrender yourselves unto Him?" (Qur'an: 21: 107-108)

There is only one "Absolute" form of Free Speech in the west, the freedom and right to bash Islam, stomp, shoot, and flush the Holy Qur'an down the toilet, and portray Islam's beloved Prophet Muhammad (p) in the most vile manner in all forms of "art".

Freedom of Speech is an ever changing and evolving right that depends on time, person, place, method of delivery, issue, and people involved. Since the time of Socrates who was prosecuted for corrupting young minds to today's blasphemous attacks on Islam, the Quran, and Islam's Prophet; freedom of speech has always been defined and determined by those in power.

Bashing Islam is not new. In fact it began during the Prophet's own lifetime by those who rejected his message in Arabia only to be followed by Christians, Jews, and followers of other faiths. Saint John of Damascus (7th – 8th C) while ironically working as an administrative officer for the Muslim ruler of Damascus wrote that the Prophet Muhammad (p) was a "false prophet…heretic…an Anti Christ." Such attacks continued throughout historical Christian Europe by men such as Martin Luther, Voltaire, Dante, to , right wing European parties, to the U.S. by such men as Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Hal Lindsey (who called Allah (God) Satan), and politicians. Bashing Islam has become a respectable political and money making cottage industry.

Thus it's not surprising that 9/11 opened the flood gates for a wider multitude of westerners who inflame and further incite hatred of Islam. Such vileness arises out of total ignorance of Islam and the historical innate fear of the "other". The West fears what it does not know. In Europe, especially, fear of an Islamized Europe has conveniently morphed into a political agenda against the immigration of the "other", mainly people of color who immigrate to Europe from formerly European colonized nations.

It is inexplicable to describe the West as civilized when such uncivil behavior toward those of a different faith or color permeates a significant portion of the population. If civilization is based on education then such people must be hailed as arrogant, racists, supremacists, and ignorant fools.

The Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks as part of an art exhibition entitled "Dog in Art" decided to follow in the footsteps of the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard (who drew cartoons depicting Muhammad as a terrorist) and drew a cartoon of the Prophet with the body of a dog. While the public rationale is freedom of speech, the underlying motive is pure racism. But freedom of speech in the west depends on who you offend. Offending Jews, discussing the Holocaust, criticizing Israel's brutality against the Palestinians is either attacked as "Anti-Semitic", or met with jail time while the western kosher media quashes such "free speech". God forbid such a cartoonist would draw a similar cartoon of Moses (p), a Jew with a swastika as a tail, or of the Crown Prince of Spain. (Spanish cartoonist fined for royal dishonour", UK Telegraph, Nov. 14, 2007)

The Danish philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote of Freedom of Speech, "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

The European Union Human Rights reports on Racism and Xenophobia annually reports that racism against Muslims and people of color in Europe is an ever increasing problem. While the E.U. and Sweden have laws on "hate crimes", which I consider these foul cartoons to be, they seldom if ever prosecute the perpetrators of such hate crimes if the intended victim is Islam or Muslims. On the contrary such politicians and artists are applauded and welcomed in the U.S. (Salman Rushdie, "The Satanic Verses", in the White House), by Conservative Christians and Pro Israeli lobbies, think tanks, and the mainstream Pro Israel media as idols of free speech. Yet in Europe and the U.S. if the perceived crime is "Anti Semitic" governments are in the fore front to decry and prosecute such "hate crimes".

When Israel is portrayed in a negative light in the Arab media due to its murderous occupation of Palestinians and constant theft of their land both European and U.S. governments immediately and publicly condemn such actions as hateful and anti Semitic, but when Islam's Prophet is subjected to vile hate it is considered "freedom of speech". It is a fine line and slippery slope between what is considered free speech and blasphemy. Didn't the Nazis use hateful cartoons of Jews as part of their propaganda for the "final solution?

TBC...
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Re: For soren
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2010 at 11:21pm
 

It is this double standard and hypocrisy by western governments that inflames the Muslim world against their policies and practices, especially with respect to Israel's invasions and genocide against Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. Criticizing Israel for its illegal occupation, inhumane siege of Gaza, massacring Gaza's children, demolishing thousands of homes, destroying hospitals, clinics, schools, churches and mosques, depriving the population of food, water and medicine, it's massive abuse of human rights and defiance of International laws, and much more is unacceptable, censored, hateful, and strongly defended by western governments and the media as "Israel's right to self defense", a right that its victims are denied.
Muslims are strictly forbidden from carrying out any violence or calling for death threats against the perpetrators of hate against the Prophet. The Holy Quran forbids such violence and directs Muslims to endure and be patient as the Holy Prophet endured during his lifetime.

"And, whenever they heard frivolous talk, having turned away from it and said: "Unto us shall be accounted Our deeds, and unto you, your deeds. Peace be upon you – [but] we do not seek out such as are ignorant [of the meaning of right and wrong]." (Quran: 28:55)

"Believers (Muslims), stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others toward you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that you do." (Qur'an 5:8)

The European Council for Fatwa and Research (ECFR) and the Federation of Islamic Organizations in Europe (FIOE) condemned the death threats issued by Al Qaeda and other small extremist groups against Lars Vilks, the Swedish cartoonist, and Ulf Johansson editor in chief of the paper that published his cartoon of the Prophet with a body of a dog. Such hate must be met with patience and a strong educational outreach program to tell the truth about Islam and its beloved Prophet Muhammad (p).


Perpetual racism, arrogance, and ignorance of Islam in the west are the combustible ingredients for assured mutual destruction of our planet. The lack of any sacredness in the west that belies the misguided application of free speech against the "other" rests on the premise that if I hold nothing sacred and I damn my own faith and religious figures then I have the right to damn yours and if you are civilized like me you will accept such racist rantings as free speech. That is the rational of fools who've surrendered their superficial intellect to misguided stupidity.

It's not enough that the west has annihilated, bombed, and committed holocausts across the globe against the "other"; now the "other" must endure the verbal and written bombs upon their faith, culture, and traditions.

What conceivable civilized aim can be achieved by denigrating a Prophet of 1.6 Billion Muslims? Why aren't Muslims retaliating with the same vile hate against Judeo-Christian religious founders such as Moses and Jesus, peace be upon them both, or the Torah and Gospel? Because Muslims believe and revere these two prophets and the original holy revelations they received.

The least that can be expected from "civilized" people who wish to criticize a faith is to have a working knowledge on the subject to confer some credibility for their critique. Such knowledge of Islam is sorely missing in the West, thus such critiques are frivolous and meaningless.
Both the Danish and Swedish cartoonists who drew the vile cartoons of the Prophet were unknown entities until they entered racist contests concocted by two small papers in a competition to defame and demonize a most exalted person. After the controversy these two men achieved the celebrity status that has eluded them for decades.

But what of this man, Muhammad (p), who for centuries became the object of racist depictions by people who knew nothing about him in Christian Europe and in the U.S. (Read: "Muhammad in Europe", by Minou Reeves)

The British Historian Michael H. Hart in his book: "The 100: Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History" chose Muhammad (p) as the most influential human being in history. He wrote:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential
persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he
was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the
religious and secular level."

The famous French writer, poet, and politician Alphonse le Lamartine (1790-1869) in his book, "Histoire De La Turque", wrote of Muhammad (p):

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the
three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in
modern history with Muhammad"?

The renowned Professor of Comparative Religion Karen Armstrong wrote a book in 2006 entitled "Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time"

There are endless biographies, books, speeches and statements on Prophet Muhammad (p) by renowned authors around the world that exalt his person, his unshakeable spiritual beliefs, morality, ethics, compassion, mercy, and extraordinary leadership.

TBC...
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Re: For soren
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2010 at 11:22pm
 

Sadly in America's educational system the study of cultures, world religions, history, and geography are sorely lacking. Such a vacuum can only lead to further misunderstanding and conflict between religions and peoples

"There will be no peace among the nations without peace among the religions. There will be no peace among the religions without dialogue among the religions."
–Hans Kung, Catholic Theologian

The foundation for a peaceful world is the knowledge that all humanity is equal in the eyes of God and in human laws and that human nature is the same throughout time, place, and geography. The secret is simple: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things. (Qur'an: 49:13)

* Mohamed Khodr M.D., M.P.H. is a political activist who frequently writes on the plight of Palestinians living under the brutal occupation of Israel, U.S. Foreign Policy, Islam, and Arab politics.


Source: Sabbah
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Re: For soren
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 2:28am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 15th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
"There will be no peace among the nations without peace among the religions. There will be no peace among the religions without dialogue among the religions."
–Hans Kung, Catholic Theologian

There will be no lasting peace among the religions without the surrender of their respective claims to primacy, their sense of mortgage on the truth, their arrogation of the right to proselytize and the abolition of penalty for apostasy. Until then, dialogue will only be tactics in aid of cynical objectives.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 15th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things. (Qur'an: 49:13)

[mod: read the forum rules]
If god's primary concern was that humankind know each other, he would not have created nations, tribes and language barriers.

So, either you must accept that your god is a liar who did not expect any critique of his
[mod: see forum rules]
or the Koran was (clearly) written by humans (without the need for a god) who did not expect the same.
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Re: For soren
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:37am
 
Shameful, Abu. Really shameful (moderating what I wrote, given its content). Intellectual cowardice. But an example of why ultimately religions attract (and deserve) more contempt than respect.
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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2010 at 7:07am by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: For soren
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:41am
 
And serves only to highlight what you fear most.
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Re: For soren
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:41am
 
Quote:
There will be no lasting peace among the religions without the surrender of their respective claims to primacy, their sense of mortgage on the truth


I can't really understand why you consider this a pre-requisite for peace among religions.

If a religion were not the ultimate truth, then why would you follow it? That goes against the entire purpose of religion. If I wasn't 100% sure Islam is the whole truth, then I could never accept it as my religion. That doesn't preclude the chance of be dealing peacefully with other religions though.

Quote:
their arrogation of the right to proselytize and the abolition of penalty for apostasy.


Although I can see your reasoning here, I still don't think it precludes the chance of peace.

The penalty for apostasy is an internal matter to a religion, and doesn't really effect relations with other religions.

Quote:
If god's primary concern was that humankind know each other, he would not have created nations, tribes and language barriers.


I've always understood this verse to mean that he created us with differences so that we can recognise one another. If we were all clones of one another, then we would not recognise one another. The point being that our differences are a means for endearment to one another, not a reason for division and hostility with one another.

Quote:
So, either you must accept that your god is a liar who did not expect any critique of his [mod: see forum rules] or the Koran was (clearly) written by humans (without the need for a god) who did not expect the same.


Jumped the gun a little there. I think you must accept that you missed the point of the verse, due to your desire to find fault with it.
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Re: For soren
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 7:00am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:41am:
Quote:
There will be no lasting peace among the religions without the surrender of their respective claims to primacy, their sense of mortgage on the truth


I can't really understand why you consider this a pre-requisite for peace among religions.

If a religion were not the ultimate truth, then why would you follow it? That goes against the entire purpose of religion. If I wasn't 100% sure Islam is the whole truth, then I could never accept it as my religion. That doesn't preclude the chance of be dealing peacefully with other religions though.

Many paths to the One... Not one path to the One.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:41am:
Quote:
their arrogation of the right to proselytize and the abolition of penalty for apostasy.


Although I can see your reasoning here, I still don't think it precludes the chance of peace

The penalty for apostasy is an internal matter to a religion, and doesn't really effect relations with other religions.

Intellectual Cowardice. If you reject what I believe I will beat you to death.

Surely "ultimate truth" is incontrovertible and requires only that the apostate see this (for surely this fact would be clear). On the other hand if he finds that another religion (or the state of non-belief) is more true or more effective, why should he not be permitted to seek god/happiness the best way he can? Of course that would require religions to relinquish any claim to religious primacy.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:41am:
Quote:
If god's primary concern was that humankind know each other, he would not have created nations, tribes and language barriers.


I've always understood this verse to mean that he created us with differences so that we can recognise one another. If we were all clones of one another, then we would not recognise one another. The point being that our differences are a means for endearment to one another, not a reason for division and hostility with one another.

There's always a way to contort the illogical, if that's what you need to do. Differences are the very essence of division and hostility. What is the point or the meaning of division where there is no difference?

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 6:41am:
Quote:
So, either you must accept that your god is a liar who did not expect any critique of his [mod: see forum rules] or the Koran was (clearly) written by humans (without the need for a god) who did not expect the same.


Jumped the gun a little there. I think you must accept that you missed the point of the verse, due to your desire to find fault with it.

No, I understood the point of the verse.
[mod: last warning, please read the forum rules]
.
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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2010 at 10:48am by abu_rashid »  

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Re: For soren
Reply #8 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 7:20am
 
This thread reminds me of a Ghandi story.

During the violence resulting from Partition, a guilt-ridden Hindu begs the Mahatma for advice on redemption (he, the Hindu, had killed many Muslims in cold blood). The Mahatma says, “I know a way out”. “Tell me, please”, says the murderer, “I will do anything you ask”.  The Mahatma replies, “Find an orphaned Muslim child and raise it as a Muslim”.



If all the religious leaders in the world, having come together to discuss tolerance and understanding, were asked to relinquish their respective religions' claim to sole possession of ultimate truth and accept the possibility that all may be valid as a path to spiritual fulfilment. To encourage those unfulfilled by their respective religions to find fulfilment in the teachings of another.

Do you think they would accept the challenge? And if not, is it peace, tolerance and understanding they desire?  Or something more fraudulent and cynical?

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Re: For soren
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 8:13am
 
Quote:
If a religion were not the ultimate truth, then why would you follow it?


That is a very, very good question. It may come down to the need people have to believe, perhaps a little brainwashing as a child, maybe something lacking in their lives that is "filled" by religion, maybe a feeling of belonging....there's probably a whole range of reasons, and many are no doubt quite valid. The idea that religion is the ABSOLUTE truth is not one of them. (although I can understand why people delude themselves into believing this)
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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Re: For soren
Reply #10 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 8:34am
 
jordan484 wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 8:13am:
Quote:
If a religion were not the ultimate truth, then why would you follow it?


That is a very, very good question. It may come down to the need people have to believe, perhaps a little brainwashing as a child, maybe something lacking in their lives that is "filled" by religion, maybe a feeling of belonging....there's probably a whole range of reasons, and many are no doubt quite valid. The idea that religion is the ABSOLUTE truth is not one of them. (although I can understand why people delude themselves into believing this)

As there can be no way of verifying a religion's claim to being the ultimate truth (other than by oneself being an omniscient deity), it must be that religion provides something other than ultimate knowledge... psycho-emotional comfort, for example... Respite from existential angst. That doesn't necessarily make it true and most likely makes it false. Lies make the world comfortable.

As for truth, if the answer to the meaning of life really is 42... Where's the comfort in that? Grin
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Re: For soren
Reply #11 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am
 
Quote:
Many paths to the One... Not one path to the One.


I don't see how my belief that my path is the only correct one affects others. Why would you want to enforce upon people that they hold other paths to be just as true? Why would I choose a path, if I though other paths were just as valid?

If I choose a brand of cereal because I believe it's the tastiest, must I also consider all other cereals equally as tasty?? I'm sorry but I don't. That's just the way life is, your ideas are artificial and not practical.

Quote:
Intellectual Cowardice. If you reject what I believe I will beat you to death.


No it's more a matter of if you abandon your community and join with another then you have betrayed us.

Quote:
Surely "ultimate truth" is incontrovertible and requires only that the apostate see this


Correct that's why he's given time to contemplate and to be educated about the facts. Very few people were ever executed for this under Islam, because 1) few people reject Islamic teachings anyway and 2) when confronted with the truth, they cannot deny it.

Quote:
There's always a way to contort the illogical, if that's what you need to do.


It's not illogical at all though. What would be illogical is us all being made as carbon copies of one another, which according to you would be the correct way.

Quote:
Differences are the very essence of division and hostility. What is the point or the meaning of division where there is no difference?


To the shallow minded, perhaps. Difference is the means by which things attract usually, as they always say "opposites attract". If it weren't for our differences, even within a race or even family, then we'd have no way of differentiating one another or recognising or perhaps even loving one another.

I'm really quite surprised by your lack of depth on this one helian.

Quote:
No, I understood the point of the verse.


I don't think you did, and I don't think you thought about it's ramifications for identification, recognition, admiration, imprinting and the entire way human society functions.

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Re: For soren
Reply #12 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:06am
 
Quote:
If I choose a brand of cereal because I believe it's the tastiest, must I also consider all other cereals equally as tasty?


No. But you must acknowledge that your choice is merely subjective. It is not the absolute truth. It is simply the right choice for you.
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Re: For soren
Reply #13 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:59am
 
jordan484 wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:06am:
Quote:
If I choose a brand of cereal because I believe it's the tastiest, must I also consider all other cereals equally as tasty?


No. But you must acknowledge that your choice is merely subjective. It is not the absolute truth. It is simply the right choice for you.


Spot on Jordan, It is for muslims at least, more a case of;
An angel came down to earth and told this guy that Brand X, is THE tastiest cereal, and god says that this is the only cereal you should eat.
Also, if any body ever tastes Brand X, but decides they like another cereal better, they must be killed.
Also studies have shown that Brand X also appears to have some worrying side effects, where it makes men wish to subjugate the women in their society, and for the women to accept that as a fair price to pay for the right to eat Brand X.
Another side effect is that some seem to get so addicted to Brand X that they babble incoherently and make extreme demands to see Brand X become the only cereal available on the planet.

So, I guess I will stick with Corn Flakes.
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Re: For soren
Reply #14 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 12:24pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am:
Quote:
Many paths to the One... Not one path to the One.


I don't see how my belief that my path is the only correct one affects others. Why would you want to enforce upon people that they hold other paths to be just as true? Why would I choose a path, if I though other paths were just as valid?

If I choose a brand of cereal because I believe it's the tastiest, must I also consider all other cereals equally as tasty?? I'm sorry but I don't. That's just the way life is, your ideas are artificial and not practical.

What Mozz and Jordan said above. And, of course, you understand that your choice of cereal is not the absolute and final word for all humankind on the taste of cereals (or do you?). Surely Muhammad had some culinary preferences that he didn't jam into the koran, just as he didn't with his apparent taste for pre-pubescent girls.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am:
Quote:
Intellectual Cowardice. If you reject what I believe I will beat you to death.


No it's more a matter of if you abandon your community and join with another then you have betrayed us.

Sure if that makes you feel better about beating someone to death. How is it betrayal for someone to convert to Christianity or Buddhism for example? Wouldn't your kith and kin love you as equally as a Christian or a Buddhist? This is just a raw excuse for brutality in the name of religious chauvinism.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am:
Quote:
Surely "ultimate truth" is incontrovertible and requires only that the apostate see this


Correct that's why he's given time to contemplate and to be educated about the facts. Very few people were ever executed for this under Islam, because 1) few people reject Islamic teachings anyway and 2) when confronted with the truth, they cannot deny it.

Fear of being beaten to death or the most brutal form of ostracism that can be imagined is the consequence of apostasy. Not surprising apostasy is not so common. It sure ain't from a universal realisation that Islam is absolutely true... On that I'd bet my house.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am:
Quote:
Differences are the very essence of division and hostility. What is the point or the meaning of division where there is no difference?


To the shallow minded, perhaps. Difference is the means by which things attract usually, as they always say "opposites attract". If it weren't for our differences, even within a race or even family, then we'd have no way of differentiating one another or recognising or perhaps even loving one another.

I'm really quite surprised by your lack of depth on this one helian.

I'm really quite surprised (or am I) by your cack-handed attempt at obfuscation. (As if we were really talking about gender differences).

Xenophobia, fear of the other, fear of the foreign is a direct result of difference.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am:
Quote:
No, I understood the point of the verse.


I don't think you did, and I don't think you thought about it's ramifications for identification, recognition, admiration, imprinting and the entire way human society functions.

Like I said, you can read whatever rubbish you choose out of that
[mod: enough!]

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