Humility? Bull. No religion teaches humility. Certainly not the Abrahamic ones. Being humble means admitting to things you do not know, that is against religion in general as they profess to know about things they simply have no idea about. Islam professes to know it all, and will kill you if you do not agree. Hardly humility.

It's not me you need to tell that to. Go tell the thousands of hating Jews, Christians and Muslims. They all need to learn about humility. It certainly doesn't come from any of their books. You want an example of a least humble Muslim? Look no further than Abu.

[quote author=jordan484 link=1271039240/15#18 date=1271220619]It's not me you need to tell that to. Go tell the thousands of hating Jews, Christians and Muslims. They all need to learn about humility. It certainly doesn't come from any of their books. [quote]

It certainly DOES come from their books: read Psalms if you don't read anything else.

The very meaning of Islam is submission to God, which is the practice of humility. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but if you're going to judge without first knowing, you're making a very big mistake.

Your judgements should at least come from your experience - not some third-hand social/political dogma.

It's very easy to say what others should do - much harder to do it yourself. Before we even talk about a value like humility we should practice it. People learn from our actions, not our words.

Likewise, Mozzoak, the same goes with "understanding" and "accommodating" others - we need to practice this before we send in the dogs and the waterboarding, because THIS is the crisis of modernity we've seen since Sept 11 - the US's decline into a state that legitimises torture, rendition, false arrest and imprisonment without trial.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap - I'm not advocating more violence, just the apparent laws of nature.

I understand your stance, Jordan. I was once a card-carrying athiest. My own experiences taught me that there is something other than materialism that drives this world, and sure, I read lots of books - some dogma, some not.

But blind, tribal hatred is ignorance. If others don't have the ability to understand this, we have laws in place to deal with it. We don't need a constant state of war to deal with life - it only makes things worse.

After all, we live in Australia for Christ's sake. I can't think of a more peaceful place or a more stable economy. If you've got issues with the local Leb boys or whatever, there are people to deal with it. This is hardly Palestine.

To be honest, I've never understood why white Australians would have such huge problems with Muslims - hardly any of us know any. But that's how it works - the less you see of the enemy, the better it is to those who manufacture consent. In 1984, the enemy was just a rumour.

Hatred is not productive, it will only cause more hatred. If others live in this cycle, it's easy, especially in Australia: just stay away from them.

jordan484 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2010 at 4:09pm:


The KKK is a single-interest group with paid-up members. Islam is a set of beliefs and religious practices, often differing widely in whatever region you find yourself in. Can we say the ideology of Alcoholics Anonomous is "evil"?

I must say, for an athiest (or agnostic) you've conceptualized the ethical domain of "evil" rather incongruently - but I'm sure religious fundamentalists would concur. Perhaps you can rest assured that Muslims will all go to hell.

Quote:


'Submitting' to God by doing his will by stoning innocent people to death is hardly humble. They are not submitting to God. They are 'submitting' to a political ideology that basically involves everyone else submitting to them, or dying. "I speak for God and I act for God when I throw this stone at you" is not humility or submission, it is oppression. No amount of bowing can make up for that.

Quote:


Are Americans not humble because they fry criminals to death?

Seems like your criteria for humbleness is a little warped fd.

Grendel wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 12:20pm:


My brother, adulterers are not innocent people. They have sinned in the eyes of God.