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Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban' (Read 8023 times)
abu_rashid
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Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Apr 12th, 2010 at 12:27pm
 
Looks like the little occupation paradise is beginning to crumble.



Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'


Updated Tue Apr 6, 2010 8:56am AEST


The United States and Afghan president Hamid Karzai traded fresh recriminations after failing to put a lid on a row over election fraud that is tearing at their uneasy alliance.

Mr Karzai reignited the controversy in a reported meeting with Afghan politicians and refused to back down from claims during an interview with the BBC that foreigners helped rig the Afghan elections.

"The remarks are troubling and the substance of the remarks is simply not true," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said following the latest of Mr Karzai's outbursts, which came a week after president Barack Obama's surprise visit to Kabul.

Another senior US official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Mr Obama's administration was struggling to understand the motivation behind Mr Karzai's recent comments.

"Up to a point, we understand that there are things that leaders will say in their own countries for domestic consumption," the official said.

But as for Mr Karzai's latest remarks, "it was a head-scratcher", the official said.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Monday that Mr Karzai had told politicians the US was interfering with Afghan affairs and that the Taliban would become a legitimate resistance movement if it did not stop.

The paper said that in the private meeting, the Afghan president even suggested he could join the Taliban himself if parliament did not support his efforts to take control of the country's election commission.

The Afghan leader meanwhile told BBC television in an interview that his claims last week of meddling and intimidation by overseas embassies and organisations in the disputed vote were "all true".

"That is exactly what happened," he said, dismissing suggestions that already strained diplomatic relations between his government and the international community would be affected.

"This should not affect trust," he said in the strategic southern city of Kandahar, where he has spent two days shoring up support from local tribal leaders before an expected US-NATO push against the Taliban in coming months.

Mr Gibbs said Mr Karzai's defiance would not yet cause the US to cancel his visit to the White House next month and would not effect funding requests pending in congress for the US Afghan war effort.

"The remarks are genuinely troubling," Mr Gibbs said. "The substance of the remarks, as have been looked into by many, are obviously not true."

In his meeting with lawmakers, Mr Karzai criticised those rejecting his efforts to wrest control of the country's Electoral Complaints Commission from the United Nations.

Five of the legislators gathered at the presidential palace told the Wall Street Journal that the Taliban's revolt would "change to resistance" if the US and its allies kept dictating how its government should run.

Mr Karzai was declared the reelected president in November by his own officials after his challenger Abdullah Abdullah abandoned a run-off.

Source: ABC
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 12:30pm
 
And now even Western medical staff are supposedly assisting the Talibaan. Not looking good at all for the supporters of the occupation.



Italians arrested over Afghan plot


Nine people, including three Italian medical workers, have been arrested in Afghanistan for allegedly plotting to kill a provincial official.

Gulab Mangal, who is the governor of Helmand, said those held were planning attacks in Lashkar Gah, the province's main city, "and the number one target was myself".

He said that the alleged operation, by the three Italians and six Afghans, was funded by the Afghan Taliban based in Pakistan.

Suicide bomb vests, hand grenades, pistols and explosives were found in a hospital storeroom where the three worked, which is run by the Italian charity Emergency.

Police were tipped off about a plot to kill Mangal, a government spokesman, said.

Speaking from Milan, Cecilia Strada, the head of Emergency, told Al Jazeera that this was a completely groundless claim.

"It sounds quite ridiculous that they would be involved in any plot. They have spent the last few years in Afghanistan, helping and treating people for free.

"We ask that you respect their rights, first of all, the right to communicate with us and let us know where they are and what their condition is."

The Associated Press obtained a video of the raid that shows British troops accompanying Afghan police, soldiers and government officials to the hospital.

In a storeroom, boxes are opened containing what appear to be bullets, pistols, hand grenades, and bags of explosives.

A British soldier is heard saying that an explosives-disposal unit was on its way when the explosives were found.

The three Italians are then shown sitting on outdoor benches but the names on their identification cards are not visible.
Three Italians and six Afghans were arrested for allegedly plotting to kill governor [AP]

Emergency said it had been unable to make contact with its employees since their arrest.

"The only contact we have been able to make has been through one of the employee's cell phones answered by someone who identified himself as a British military official," Strada, Emergency's head, said.

A Nato spokesman in Kabul said its forces had not taken part in any arrests.

Franco Frattini, the Italian foreign minister, was closely following developments, a foreign ministry spokesman said.

"Pending details in this matter, the government reaffirms its strictly rigorous line against any direct or indirect support for terrorism, be it in Afghanistan or elsewhere," the spokesman said.

Emergency has had a tense relationship with local authorities due to its policy of treating all patients, including suspected members of the Taliban.

It has operated in Afghanistan since 1999 and currently runs three surgical centres, a maternity centre and a network of 28 health centres that they say have treated 2.5 million people.

Karzai visit

In another security-related development, Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, was forced to cut short a trip to Kunduz, a province in the country's north, after a rocket attack.

He had been travelling with US General Stanley McChrystal to meet tribal elders and German troops when rockets fell near a base he was due to visit on Saturday.

Al Jazeera's James Bays, who was covering the Kunduz visit when the incident occurred, said the security situation in the area is volatile.

"Kunduz is the most violent part of the north of Afghanistan," he said. "He [Karzai] is trying to win over some of those elders who in the past might have supported his enemies."

The joint visit with McChrystal came as the White House tried to move on from a public row between Karzai and the US.

The dispute was sparked by Karzai's comments blaming the fraud in last summer's presidential election on foreign embassies in the country.

Source: al-Jazeerah
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 6:38pm
 
Abu, what do you think everyone involved should do?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 8:04pm
 
I think the U.S/West need to negotiate a treaty with al-Qaedah/Talibaan.

This treaty must involve withdrawal of all U.S troops from all Islamic lands, unconditionally. It must involve the immediate cessation of any form of support, aid or assistance to the Zionist occupation of Palestine. It must involve the immediate cessation of any form of support, aid or assistance to all of the neo-colonialist regimes in the Muslim world, the Saudi pirate clan, the Egyptian dictator and so forth. In effect all 'meddling' in the Islamic world must cease.

In return AQ/Talibaan must cease all hostilities against the West. And must cease promoting any hostilities against the West at all.

A 'sink or swim' policy needs to be adopted by the West towards the Muslim world. No need for them to evacuate and clean up the Zionist mess they left in the middle of our land, just leave it to fend for itself, and let it find it's own way. Same for the despotic regimes the British & U.S setup in the Arab countries. No need to clean them up, just let go of their hands, and if they survive then so be it.
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 8:13pm
 
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #5 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 9:03pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 12th, 2010 at 8:04pm:
I think the U.S/West need to negotiate a treaty with al-Qaedah/Talibaan.

This treaty must involve withdrawal of all U.S troops from all Islamic lands, unconditionally. It must involve the immediate cessation of any form of support, aid or assistance to the Zionist occupation of Palestine. It must involve the immediate cessation of any form of support, aid or assistance to all of the neo-colonialist regimes in the Muslim world, the Saudi pirate clan, the Egyptian dictator and so forth. In effect all 'meddling' in the Islamic world must cease.

In return AQ/Talibaan must cease all hostilities against the West. And must cease promoting any hostilities against the West at all.

A 'sink or swim' policy needs to be adopted by the West towards the Muslim world. No need for them to evacuate and clean up the Zionist mess they left in the middle of our land, just leave it to fend for itself, and let it find it's own way. Same for the despotic regimes the British & U.S setup in the Arab countries. No need to clean them up, just let go of their hands, and if they survive then so be it.


Would the withdrawal of troops be immediate?

Do you think that AQ/Taliban will stop fighting the west if they stop meddling?

What about Wahhabi and Salafi Jihadists?

freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2010 at 8:13pm:


Can threads be moved/merged?
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #6 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 9:43pm
 
Quote:
Can threads be moved/merged?


Abu is able to, and welcome to move this to the global board, but I am not going to interfere here.

Quote:
This treaty must involve withdrawal of all U.S troops from all Islamic lands, unconditionally.


Does that include Spain?
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 8:11am
 
Please name all "Islamic lands".

Will muslims then stop their push to occupy the globe, as it is their aim and their will? Will they simply be satisfied with the lands that they have and leave the rest of the world to live the way they see fit?
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 12:34pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 12th, 2010 at 8:04pm:
I think the U.S/West need to negotiate a treaty with al-Qaedah/Talibaan.

This treaty must involve withdrawal of all U.S troops from all Islamic lands, unconditionally. It must involve the immediate cessation of any form of support, aid or assistance to the Zionist occupation of Palestine. It must involve the immediate cessation of any form of support, aid or assistance to all of the neo-colonialist regimes in the Muslim world, the Saudi pirate clan, the Egyptian dictator and so forth. In effect all 'meddling' in the Islamic world must cease.

In return AQ/Talibaan must cease all hostilities against the West. And must cease promoting any hostilities against the West at all.

A 'sink or swim' policy needs to be adopted by the West towards the Muslim world. No need for them to evacuate and clean up the Zionist mess they left in the middle of our land, just leave it to fend for itself, and let it find it's own way. Same for the despotic regimes the British & U.S setup in the Arab countries. No need to clean them up, just let go of their hands, and if they survive then so be it.


"Our lands?" And how would you define "our lands?" Could you define "Christian lands" in the same way, or would this read as colonialism?

This platform is straight out of Al Qaeda. How do you define who the pirates and despots are?

The Taliban aren't despots?

How could the US possibly sign a "treaty" with Al Qaeda? There's no territorial sovereignty to begin with.

This reads as undiluted fundamentalist Kool Aid to me. I understand the need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan - I understand the need to stop meddling. I can fully understand the need to solve the Palestinian problem.

But the reality is that US hegemony will continue, and the struggle for remaining oil reserves will go on. The only virtue of groups like the Taliban is their potential longitivity. Looking to the future, they have the potential to be around longer than the US's hold on global power - and certainly the US's hold on the Afghani government.

I understand the frustration and anger, but I don't get the selectively applied notion of Muslim brotherhood - more fundamentalist Kool Aid. The world of Arab and Islamic politics is more labrinthine than the colonial alliances prior to WWI.

All Muslims are equal, but some are more equal than others.

There will be no unconditional treaties with the US - we all know this. If this is the best the "Muslim" world can come up with, we're all doomed.

The best groups like the Taliban can hope for is quiet assimilation with US development interests in the region. This is the way Musharraf played it in Pakistan. If the Taliban could put up with quiet, backroom meetings with US colonels, nod their heads politely, and actually attempt to distribute the aid that's available, they'd prosper.

But can they? It seems to me that the problems facing us lie with rhetoric, not objectives. Groups like Al Qaeda prosper through popular appeal to Muslim anger - but countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan will not develop through continual war. Real lives are at stake.

I think Muslims should question how their own antithetical stance to the West hinders their own living standards. Once again, I can understand it, but I can't see how such a heightened state of continual warfare is going to solve anything.

I actually think that much of this "Muslim solidarity" call comes from privaleged Muslims in the West - Muslims whose growing affluence brings about middle class guilt. Their own sense of "affluenza" brings about a shift in their own cultural identity - a shift against consumerism - but this shift becomes usurped by a call to jihad against the West.

I aknowledge that it's our problem too: we do discriminate against Muslims in many Western countries - just look at many of the arguments on this board. But its Muslims themselves that must tackle their own alienated discourses - discourses of violent jihad, etc - discourses that, in their extreme, foster suicide and mass murder.

I agree that the US should leave its puppet leaders in the middle east despite the consequences, real or imagined. The US has been against democracy in the middle east since WWII.

But we know that Al Qaeda and the Taliban will not bring democracy either. The US's stooges (like Saddam) are hardly a benign dictators, but what exactly is the Taliban?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #9 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 4:09pm
 
[b]jaemi,[/b]

Quote:
Would the withdrawal of troops be immediate?


Yes.

Quote:
Do you think that AQ/Taliban will stop fighting the west if they stop meddling?


If they negotiate a treaty now, yes. If not, then probably not. They'll fight till they become dominant, and then meddle in the U.S.

That's why now is a golden opportunity.

Quote:
What about Wahhabi and Salafi Jihadists?


Sorry... they're different from AQ/Taliban??? You've lost me there.

jordan,

Quote:
Please name all "Islamic lands".


All countries where Muslims make up a majority of the population.

Quote:
Will muslims then stop their push to occupy the globe, as it is their aim and their will?


Muslims can't even occupy their own countries let alone the globe. Please leave the sensationalist garbage out of the discussion. Go and peddle it on jihadwatch where other docile gits will believe it with you.

Quote:
Will they simply be satisfied with the lands that they have and leave the rest of the world to live the way they see fit?


Probably.
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #10 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 7:45pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 13th, 2010 at 4:09pm:
Quote:
What about Wahhabi and Salafi Jihadists?


Sorry... they're different from AQ/Taliban??? You've lost me there.


I was under the impression that they were the driving force of AQ.
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #11 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 8:08pm
 
AQ are a terrorist organisation not a country countries don't have treaties with terrorist organisations.   Cheesy
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #12 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 8:41pm
 
Who represents AQ?
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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #13 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 8:47pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 13th, 2010 at 4:09pm:
[b]jaemi,[/b]

Muslims can't even occupy their own countries let alone the globe. Please leave the sensationalist garbage out of the discussion. Go and peddle it on jihadwatch where other docile gits will believe it with you.



This muslim would disagree with you-

"Do you want Islam to take over the rest of the world"

"Of course I want it to, and it will" @ 2:53min

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Re: Karzai 'threatens to join Taliban'
Reply #14 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 9:23pm
 
Thanks for that clip jordan, I have not seen a lot of Dawkins, but I am always impressed when I do.
He comes across as a kind, gentle, caring sort of guy, which makes him a good messenger for humanist principles.

Personally I relate more to the p1ssed and argumentative, and a lot more confronting style of Hitchens, but I find both their reasoning very strong.

As Dawkins finished with, faith is believing what you have been told to believ, and not believing in what makes sense based on looking at the evidence.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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