Australian Politics Forum - Muslims gather at the Mosque

Grendel

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Muslims gather at the Mosque
Apr 15^th, 2010 at 12:22pm

Well most of us not ignorant will remember the decades of crap from the Islamic Youth Group and their mentors Hilali and Trad. Well new name but they are still alive and kicking.

Al-Qaeda at city mosque
ERIK JENSEN
April 15, 2010

EXCLUSIVE
xxx

AN AL-QAEDA recruiter, described as the No. 1 terrorist threat to America, was engaged by a Sydney youth group to address hundreds of young people - a decision that has caused deep divisions at one of Australia's largest mosques.

At the same time as Anwar al-Awlaki was advising the extremist later charged with killing 13 people at Fort Hood in Texas, he was in talks with a group, Sydney Muslim Youth, about delivering a sermon to young Australians. He was already well known to security agencies as the spiritual guide to three of the hijackers on September 11, 2001.

''Anwar al-Awlaki is like a virus produced by the body wanting to fight a microbe,'' said Taj el-Din al-Hilaly, condemning the sermon, which was delivered at his mosque by phone link from Yemen.

According to US authorities, about the time of the sermon Mr Awlaki was transforming himself from radical cleric to trainer and recruiter for al-Qaeda.

Last week, Mr Awlaki became the first US citizen added to the CIA kill list. He is considered a military enemy of the US and faces assassination by special forces.

"The danger Awlaki poses to this country is no longer confined to words," a US official told The New York Times. "He's gotten involved in plots."

The chairwoman of the US house subcommittee on homeland security, Jane Harman, called Mr Awlaki "terrorist No. 1 in terms of threat against us".

The bomber who tried to blow up a Detroit-bound plane on Christmas Day last year reportedly described Mr Awlaki as his trainer and recruiter.

The Herald attended the sermon at the Lakemba mosque in February last year but was ejected by organisers. Yesterday, no one involved with the mosque would take responsibility for securing Mr Awlaki as a speaker.

According to a director of the mosque, Ziad Ghamraoui, Shady Alsuleiman was in charge of organising evening youth events at the time of the sermon. Sheikh Shady refused to comment. He would not say whether Mr Awlaki was paid and would not comment on the subject of his speech.

Since Mr Awlaki's lecture, all speakers must now be approved by the mosque. Mr Ghamraoui said: ''We need to make sure that it's only moderate scholars that are coming.''

The senior imam at the mosque, Sheikh Hilaly, condemned provocative clerics who radicalised young people. ''They are like fast food who give no substance and no spiritual nutrition,'' he said.

''Our young people these days like loud voices. They seem to like Rambo and Schwarzenegger and the imam who raises his voice and appears tough.'' IslamicMedia.com.au, an initiative of the Shady-affiliated United Muslims of Australia, streamed but did not record the speech and has 15 other audio sermons from the imam.

On other websites, not hosted in Australia, Mr Awlaki supports jihad with phrases such as: ''The messenger of Allah said … whoever kills a non-believer can meet him''.

The NSW counter-terrorism squad, which has previously described Mr Awlaki as ''of great concern to us'', was unavailable for comment.

ejensen@smh.com.au

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #1 - Apr 15^th, 2010 at 12:30pm

Imam Anwar al-Awlaki is a scapegoat who the U.S is angry with because he refused to propagate their propaganda to Muslims. He is hated by America because he was raised and educated in America, yet refused to work for them, instead returning to Yemen. There's no evidence he had anything to do with any of those attacks other than he happened to be the Imam in mosques they attended. Contrary to popular propaganda lines, people generally just pray in the mosques they live/work closest to. Imam Anwar just happened to be the Imam of the mosque Nidal Hasan worked near, it's as simple as that. In the U.S today though, that's a crime, guilt by association is today the norm.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque Reply #2 - Apr 15^th, 2010 at 12:38pm really? Did you attend the mosque Abu?
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40715 Gender:	Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque Reply #3 - Apr 15^th, 2010 at 12:52pm Quote: .........he happened to be the Imam in mosques they attended...... so, he was a teacher in mosques terrorists have been taught in ??
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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #4 - Apr 15^th, 2010 at 6:39pm

Grendel,

Quote:

Did you attend the mosque Abu?

Did I attend Lakemba mosque? Yeh been there a few times.

sprint,

Quote:

so, he was a teacher in mosques terrorists have been taught in ??

They attended the mosque (as all Muslims must do each and every Friday). I don't think there's any evidence they were "taught" there, and even if they were, it still means squat. If you attend a church and someone else who attends it does something wrong, are you guilty by association for that?

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque Reply #5 - Apr 15^th, 2010 at 6:44pm Good grief... I didn't ask DO YOU attend the Mosque, did I? i asked DID YOU ie meaning on this occassion... Stop being purposefully oblique.
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mozzaok

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #6 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 8:20am

Abu, once more it seems you deliver replies that contradict what you have previously said.

You have said that muslims must use an imam for guidance, and not try and interpret the koran, or the will of allah for themselves, but now mosques are just somewhere people pray, and an imam at different mosques, that terrorists came out of, is purely coincidental?

It does not ring true.

What also does not ring true is that they would stream his messages, but not record them.

You will always have mistrust of Islam, and muslims, as long as this sort of behaviour carries on.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #7 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 8:55am

Grendel,

Quote:

Good grief... I didn't ask DO YOU attend the Mosque, did I?

i asked DID YOU ie meaning on this occassion...

Stop being purposefully oblique

Oh sorry, didn't quite get ya. Perhaps if you're a little more precise when asking?

No I didn't. But even if I did, so what? Nothing wrong with attending an Islamic lecture is there? And at the time he was not even being falsely accused anyway, he was 'clean' according to America at that time.

mozza,

Quote:

Abu, once more it seems you deliver replies that contradict what you have previously said.

Nope, once again you just have no idea what you're on about.

Quote:

You have said that muslims must use an imam for guidance, and not try and interpret the koran, or the will of allah for themselves

Don't believe I've ever said anything that amounts to that. Unless of course by "Imam" you mean the 4 classical jurists Shafi, Malik, Hanbal and Abu Hanifa. In that case, then yes you'd be correct in a sense, but that doesn't relate to this case.

The word Imam has a few different 'contexts'. It literally just means "in front", and in Islam means specifically the "man in front of the other congregants" when we pray, ie. the "Imam of a mosque" who leads them in prayer. Or it could refer to a distinguished scholar of Islam. The Muslims of course must take their understanding of the Islamic texts from the distinguished scholars of Islam, but that doesn't mean they go sit in a mosque and blindly follow whatever the prayer leader says.

Quote:

but now mosques are just somewhere people pray, and an imam at different mosques, that terrorists came out of, is purely coincidental?

If you knew the circumstances, you'd know how ridiculous this sounds.

Major Nidal Hassan just prayed Friday prayer a few times in the mosque where Imam Anwar was the prayer leader. Major Nidal didn't "come out of the mosque", he just happened to attend it. I attend Friday prayers in various mosques. One mosque which is close to where I've worked for the past 9 years, I've attended almost every single Friday for those 9 years, yet I have only ever spoken to the Imam about 3 times.

Quote:

What also does not ring true is that they would stream his messages, but not record them.

You will always have mistrust of Islam, and muslims, as long as this sort of behaviour carries on.

You've lost me there, care to clarify?

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #8 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 9:46am

Quote:

THE NSW counter-terrorism squad knew about an al-Qaeda-linked sermon delivered at a Sydney mosque but did nothing because it did not believe that the radical imam who gave it was a threat.

The unit has no transcript of the sermon, delivered by an al-Qaeda recruiter described as the No.1 terrorist threat to America, but says the speaker, Anwar al-Awlaki, has now become a ''significant threat'' to Australia.
''He was not identified as a significant threat to NSW,'' the commander of operations at the Counter-Terrorism and Special Tactics Squad, John O'Reilly, told the Herald. ''While he might be a player over there [in the US], that doesn't impact on NSW.''

But when Mr Awlaki delivered his phone-link sermon to Lakemba Mosque last year he was already being monitored by US security agencies. He was in exile in Yemen and had been linked to three of the September 11 hijackers.

US security agencies have since revealed that about the same time as Mr Awlaki addressed Lakemba Mosque he was advising the man since charged over the Fort Hood massacre that left 13 people dead.
He has also been described as the recruiter and trainer of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who allegedly attempted to blow-up a Detroit-bound plane on Christmas Day last year.

At or before the time he gave the Lakemba sermon, he is believed to have transformed himself from radical cleric to al-Qaeda trainer and recruiter.

''He's definitely on our radar [now],'' Detective Superintendent O'Reilly said yesterday. ''We're very concerned about his capacity to influence people that are vulnerable to his message at any point in time … It's a message of hate, in the counter-terrorism context, that he is spreading.''
Detective Superintendent O'Reilly said his squad had a strong relationship with Lakemba Mosque and the sermon, delivered in February 2009, would not be able to be delivered now.

''We are collaborating with other agencies and we are aware of what's happening. We're very concerned about the insidious message he's spreading on the internet and other places but his ability to access people in any of the mosques in Sydney is very limited.''

Neither the Attorney-General's office nor the Australian Federal Police, which deals with terrorism at a federal level, were prepared to comment on when Australia was briefed by US authorities about Mr Awlaki's expanded role inside al-Qaeda. Nor would they say if the imam's federal security status was different to the opinion of state authorities at the time of his Sydney sermon.

''I am very concerned about violent or extremist views being put to young Australians,'' the Attorney-General, Robert McClelland, said. ''Community leaders need to ensure they are doing all they can to stop our young people being exposed to these types of speakers.''

The only response from the group that organised the sermon, Sydney Muslim Youth, was an email criticising the Herald..

The Police Minister, Michael Daley, said the counter-terrorism squad had his full support.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-did-not-act-on-terrorist-sermon-20100415-shs9.h...

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #9 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 10:40am

Quote:

...knew about an al-Qaeda-linked sermon..
...The unit has no transcript of the sermon...

Interesting. They have no transcript of the sermon, but it was al-Qaedah linked. Quite clearly this is media beef-up. The sermon could've been on the correct way to have sincerity in your prayer for all the "unit" knows, since they have no transcript.

Quote:

...has now become...

Right. He was not considered a threat back when he gave the lecture, which gels with what I said above. If someone were to attend his lecture, it wouldn't have been anything out of the ordinary.

Quote:

linked to three of the September 11 hijackers

With the "5 degrees of separation" methodology the U.S authorities use to determine if someone is "linked" to terrorism, that's not surprising.

Quote:

...he was advising the man since charged over the Fort Hood massacre...

Advising? About what exactly? Sounds like more media beef-up to me. What they really meant to say was "He was the prayer leader of the mosque the guy happened to attend on Fridays when he worked in the area", but that doesn't sound as sensationalist does it?

Quote:

nd the sermon, delivered in February 2009, would not be able to be delivered now

That's right, because Imam Anwar is currently being hunted by the U.S and her lackeys in Yemen. They've so far bombed the living daylights out of hundreds of civilians, trying to kill the poor man.

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Soren

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #10 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 10:54am

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 8:55am:

Quote:

You have said that muslims must use an imam for guidance, and not try and interpret the koran, or the will of allah for themselves

Don't believe I've ever said anything that amounts to that. Unless of course by "Imam" you mean the 4 classical jurists Shafi, Malik, Hanbal and Abu Hanifa. In that case, then yes you'd be correct in a sense, but that doesn't relate to this case.

The word Imam has a few different 'contexts'. It literally just means "in front", and in Islam means specifically the "man in front of the other congregants" when we pray, ie. the "Imam of a mosque" who leads them in prayer. Or it could refer to a distinguished scholar of Islam. The Muslims of course must take their understanding of the Islamic texts from the distinguished scholars of Islam, but that doesn't mean they go sit in a mosque and blindly follow whatever the prayer leader says.

Of course.
It all depends on what the meaning of is is.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque
Reply #11 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 11:00am

I put some credance with the informed words of an unbiased expert in that sphere.

Quote:

.......''He's definitely on our radar [now],'' Detective Superintendent O'Reilly said yesterday.
''We're very concerned about his capacity to influence people that are vulnerable to his message at any point in time … It's a message of hate, in the counter-terrorism context, that he is spreading.''

abu is biased

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque Reply #12 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 11:05am Well i think you should have been there Abu because after hearing his rant yesterday i think you both espouse the same beliefs re the world and who the enemies of islam are.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque Reply #13 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 12:10pm .
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Muslims gather at the Mosque Reply #14 - Apr 16^th, 2010 at 12:14pm I know nuffin' about nuffin', trust me. http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/04/15/2873537.htm errr.. dissembing, errr.. fast-talking err... person... very little about... er... eeerrr.... Fail.
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