Australian Politics Forum - Scientology and Islam

NorthOfNorth

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Scientology and Islam
Jun 10^th, 2010 at 10:27pm

It is almost certainly an ugly (if inevitable) coincidence (as Hubbard was no scholar) , but tactics once prescribed by L Ron Hubbard to defend and protect his 'religion' mirror those used by Muslims today.

Excerpts from the Hubbard biography, 'Bare Faced Messiah'.

Quote:

[Hubbard] derided apostates as 'squirrels' and recommended merciless litigation to drive them out of business. 'The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease,' he wrote in one of his interminable bulletins, casually adding, 'If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.'

In the same bulletin he offered the benefit of his advice to any Scientologists unlucky enough to be arrested. They were instantly to file a $100,000 civil damages suit for molestation of 'a Man of God going about his business', then go on the offensive 'forcefully, artfully and arduously' and cause 'blue flames to dance on the courthouse roof until everybody has apologized profusely'.

The only way to defend anything, Hubbard wrote, was to attack. 'If you ever forget that, you will lose every battle you are ever engaged in.' It was a philosophy to which he would adhere ardently all his life.

Quote:

While he was still in Melbourne, Hubbard received an urgent telephone call from Washington with bad news. Nibs [Hubbard’s son], he was told, had 'blown'. To Scientologists, 'blowing the org' (leaving the church) was one of the worst crimes in the book.

Quote:

[An enemy of Scientology] 'May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.'

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Soren

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #1 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 11:21pm

I could never be bothered to look at Scientology but I do believe that if there is a wrong end of any stick to be had, islam will grab it with both hands, as a matter of policy. It is a parody of every current of thought in the 7th century and has continued since to always, always get the wrong end of whatrever stick was going.

This obviouly proved to be a very powerful unifying force for the weak minded, so Scientology, it may appear, has twigged on a method of muscling in on that particualar demographic.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #2 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 12:17am

Yes, Scientology itself is as boring as batsh!t, but Hubbard's biography "Bare Faced Messiah" does make for fascinating reading.

Although a pathological liar, wracked by severe personality disorders and haunted by incompetence and personal failure in his early years, Hubbard was remarkably charismatic and had a natural talent for communication... Not that the reader will find Hubbard likeable.

It gives the reader a clear insight into the founding and continued success of a cult and suggests a mental boundary in many (perhaps all) of us beyond which we are driven by the need for a sense of belonging that transcends then decommissions one's power of reason.

It's quite possible that proselytisers of Islam in the West are using the exact same tactics and exploiting the same psychological devices to advance their own malignant cause.

Maybe even Muslims will see Hubbard's own psychiatric condition leading to his claims of prophethood as being identical to those claimed by Muhammad.

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« Last Edit: Jun 11^th, 2010 at 12:23am by NorthOfNorth »

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locutius

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #3 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 11:56am

http://commonsenseatheism.com/uploads/Miller%20-%20Bare-Faced%20Messiah.pdf

Available on PDF..just started having a read and am already intrigued. Thanks Helian, I remember picking up a copy of Dianetics about 25 years ago not realizing at the time that it was the bible of a cult that I was thumbing through.

I had trouble reconciling the sensible elements of self help self hypnosis psychology with what was tempting mumbo jumbo..too many others have been prepared to make those fantastical leaps.

I'll have to wait till I get home to print it but it seems that a common theme with my discussions with friends and colleges will be in this book. That theme being "Do Not think that the age of the single powerful world altering persona is dead". There will be other super magnetic meglomanics.

Yes the tactics are interesting...

For some time now historically violated groups have been able to close down any discussion or criticism by yelling Racist or Genocide or Discrimination or ______aphobe. The apologists slink away, the ignorant are frightened away or lash out, the truly racist bask in the lable while those that actually want to get somewhere stay the course. Pursue questions and answers to get at something truthful.

I remember many years ago that the Dept of Aboriginal Affairs was told that they need to account for money spent...they responded that such a request was racist. Ignoring entirely that all govenment monies spent through government agencies was accountable....that not being racist...that being accounting.

One of the epidemics of stupidity in our society.

Interesting question though...can a question in itself be racist or discriminatory? I would think no. But certainly what is done with the answer to a question could very well be racist or discriminatory.

For eg..."Are you of Negro origin?" is not a discriminatory question although I would consider it a personal question.

It is how the question and the answer is used that gives it a discrimatory flavour. Although if the question was "You got n@gger in you boy?" All but the most unworldly would be excused for thinking that this, by force of it's venacular, was definitely going somewhere negative.

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« Last Edit: Jun 11^th, 2010 at 12:02pm by locutius »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #4 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 1:50pm

I guess I was doubly fascinated when I read the book years ago, because I knew someone who'd gotten into it nearly 20 years ago. He would tell us stories about the exploits of Hubbard which all Scientologists know by rote.

His family's heroic deeds, his early travels through the far east, his heroic war record, his aviation days, his encounters with various mystics etc.. etc... etc...

What was was a great read was not just that some of it was bullsh!t... The entire official biography was complete bullsh!t.

His family were nobodies, he'd barely travelled at all (prior to inventing Scientology), he was dishonourably discharged from the US Army during WW2 due to questionable mental health , having never seen action... Nearly every fact in the "official" biography is the self-aggrandising reverse of the truth.

Without a doubt one of the world's greatest conmen.

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locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Scientology and Islam Reply #5 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 2:11pm In essence, The actor's Actor I suppose.
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locutius

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #6 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 4:00pm

I've skimmed about the 90 odd pages...bloody funny stuff..

Love the bit about depth charging a magnetic enomally for 2 days, with reinforcements. Glorious.

The author is quite a good writer as well IMO. ***that's the author of the biography, not L Ron. (Although "Battlefield Earth" wasn't too bad, it certainly wasn't "Twilight" awful)

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« Last Edit: Jun 11^th, 2010 at 4:49pm by locutius »

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Scientology and Islam Reply #7 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 5:32pm Oh yeah... Forgot that it was pretty bloody funny as well! I remember there was the story about his belief that he'd refined all human knowledge down to one word. That word? You'll have to read the book to find out!
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aikmann4

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #8 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 9:09pm

L Ron was indisputably a genius. He was able to fabricate some pseudoscientific dreck and, in the eyes of his followers at least, transform himself a being whose mind contained the fundamental secrets of the universe. He accumulated tens of millions of dollars from this and then died in a trailer. He was a sordid con-man who became the victim of his own delusions, but remarkably, manipulated thousands of people into believing them as well. A megalomanical, dangerous thug perhaps, but I think we all have a soft spot for the gifted con-man who manages to deceive so many people and make it big. L Ron lived.

The new leader of Scientology, David Miscavige, is arguably even worse than L Ron Hubbard. He's an aggressive vindictive thug who supposedly throws bottles of water at his staff and forces them into playing lengthy games of musical chairs where the losers will be assigned to Scientology churches in the middle of nowhere; probably never to see their families again. When it comes to Scientology, no matter how outlandish or ridiculous the claims made against it are, if they are of a negative nature than the general rule to follow is that they're most likely true.

I don't see Scientology, lasting much longer; last time I checked its membership base was contracting into nothing. The internet and a whole lot of negative media coverage, combined with Miscavige's mangerial incompetence, is delivering it its long overdue finishing blows. No doubt about it however, the 20th century, with its bizarre, post-modern cults, post-modernism itself, Boasian anthropology and Marxian claptrap will be viewed by generations thousands of years from now as the century the non-scientific intellectual world went mad. Scientology will just be another chapter in the coming book that tries to make sense of it; or a few paragraphs. Cheesy

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« Last Edit: Jun 11^th, 2010 at 9:15pm by aikmann4 »

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Scientology and Islam Reply #9 - Jun 11^th, 2010 at 10:53pm It was very sad what happened with Travolta, his son, and his belief in scientology. They say that Travolta rode around on his mower hour upon hour in the middle of the night after his son's death. I really felt sorry for Travolta because I reckon he's a top bloke regardless of his beliefs.
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muso

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #10 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 9:07am

locutius wrote on Jun 11^th, 2010 at 11:56am:

Available on PDF..just started having a read and am already intrigued. Thanks Helian, I remember picking up a copy of Dianetics about 25 years ago not realizing at the time that it was the bible of a cult that I was thumbing through.

I remember seeing a display on Dianetics at the old Paddy's Market in Brisbane near Storey Bridge back in the 80's. They had an E-meter, and keen to investigate, I was asked to hold the two electrodes.

"Now think of an unhappy moment in your life"

My BS meter was sounding off loud and clear at this stage. The meter needle started to move downwards quickly.

"Ah - that's it! What were you thinking about? Was that a sad moment?"

"Well I was thinking that some people would be gullible enough to be taken in by a simple AC resistivity bridge. That made me very sad, and then I got bored, so I gripped the electrodes tighter, and that's why the reading changed "

Then she started talking about Auras. I think I said something like "Lady - you're speaking BS. I have better things to do with my time"

I didn't realise it was a dangerous cult at that stage. I thought it was just some stupid New Age fad.

In retrospect, most people would also have seen through this charade, but a small fraction would have been at such a low in their lives as to be convinced by it, and then eventually lost everything to this cult.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #11 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 9:18am

And then there was the story of L Ron Hubbard 'demonstrating' that plants felt pain... And that, yes, they too could potentially store negative memories... He was filmed attaching an e-meter to a tomato plant after which he set about ripping leaves off it... Of course the e-meter, the viewer was assured, 'registered' the plant's agony.

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Scientology and Islam Reply #12 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 9:27am It's little wonder that Scientology was granted status as a religion...
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locutius

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Re: Scientology and Islam
Reply #13 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 10:11am

muso wrote on Jun 15^th, 2010 at 9:07am:

locutius wrote on Jun 11^th, 2010 at 11:56am:

Available on PDF..just started having a read and am already intrigued. Thanks Helian, I remember picking up a copy of Dianetics about 25 years ago not realizing at the time that it was the bible of a cult that I was thumbing through.

I remember seeing a display on Dianetics at the old Paddy's Market in Brisbane near Storey Bridge back in the 80's. They had an E-meter, and keen to investigate, I was asked to hold the two electrodes.

"Now think of an unhappy moment in your life"

My BS meter was sounding off loud and clear at this stage. The meter needle started to move downwards quickly.

"Ah - that's it! What were you thinking about? Was that a sad moment?"

"Well I was thinking that some people would be gullible enough to be taken in by a simple AC resistivity bridge. That made me very sad, and then I got bored, so I gripped the electrodes tighter, and that's why the reading changed "

Then she started talking about Auras. I think I said something like "Lady - you're speaking BS. I have better things to do with my time"

I didn't realise it was a dangerous cult at that stage. I thought it was just some stupid New Age fad.

In retrospect, most people would also have seen through this charade, but a small fraction would have been at such a low in their lives as to be convinced by it, and then eventually lost everything to this cult.

Blimey, I remember that being there as well. I didn't put my curiousity to the test though. That WAS where I picked up my copy of Dianetics (long since thrown away).

I have been wracking my brain trying to remember the book that I had recently read before purchasing the Dianetics book and because I thought that book was quite good and that Dianetics seemed to be saying somethings very similar....till it disappeared into total pseudo BS...

that other book I had read was Psycho-Cybernetics if anyone had heard of it. Can't remember much about it now but thought it quite good at the time.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Scientology and Islam Reply #14 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 10:11am Amadd wrote on Jun 15^th, 2010 at 9:27am: It's little wonder that Scientology was granted status as a religion... Nice one..
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