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The Population Debate (Read 181976 times)
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #225 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 4:56pm
 
muso wrote on Feb 9th, 2011 at 4:13pm:
There is an animated population pyramid for Australia here:
http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/population%20pyramid%20previe...

It's interesting to compare the different states.



Yes, there are variations between the states and some are significant.

However, the suggested look at the end of the animation period (2056) is grossly bloated, when compared to what a standard Population pryamid is recognised to be!

Personally, I doubt that it will actually look like that in 2056, there are too many "issues" in play!
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #226 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 2:49pm
 
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #227 - Feb 12th, 2011 at 8:36pm
 
Russia to lose 20m people by 2050: study


RUSSIA's ageing population could plummet by more than 20 million in the next 40 years, the Standard & Poor's ratings agency predicted in a survey of global demographic trends.

The population is projected to fall to 116 million by 2050, from 140 million in 2010, due to a low birth rate, the agency said, warning that an increasing proportion of older people would put huge pressure on government spending.


"S&P promises Russia a poverty-stricken old age," news website Gazeta.ru headlined a story on the report.

President Dmitry Medvedev in December called Russia's falling population a "serious threat." He has tried to tempt Russians to give birth with cash payments to mothers and tax allowances for large families.

In its report, S&P predicted that the working-age population, calculated as those under 65, would fall to 60 per cent of the total by 2050, down from last year's 72 per cent.

By the end of the period studied, the government will have to spend 25.5 per cent of Gross Domestic Product on age-related expenses unless it carries out reforms, it said, with debt levels possibly rising to 585 per cent of GDP.


"Further reforms are needed to put Russian public finances on a more sustainable path," the report said.

The country's population fell 6.4 million between 1991 and 2009. The federal statistics agency has predicted that the population could fall to less than 127 million by 2031, in a worst-case scenario.

At the moment, Russia has a low retirement age of 60 for men and 55 for women, but many continue to work because of the small size of state pensions, which the S&P report said average around $US100 ($A99.73) per month.

Russian men have a life expectancy of just 63, with women on 75.


Link -
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/russia-to-lose-20m-people-by-2050...
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #228 - Feb 23rd, 2011 at 2:50pm
 
16 Statistics About The Coming Retirement Crisis That Will Drop Your Jaw


1- Beginning January 1st, 2011, for the next 19 years, every day more than 10,000 Baby Boomers will reach the age of 65

2- According to one recent survey, 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything at all to retirement savings

3- Most Baby Boomers do not have a traditional pension plan because they have been going out of style over the past 30 years

4- Over 30% of U.S. investors in their sixties have more than 80 percent of their 401k invested in equities. So what happens if the stock market crashes again?


5- 35% of Americans over the age of 65 rely almost entirely on Social Security payments


6- According to another recent survey, 24% of U.S. workers admit that they have postponed their planned retirement age at least once during the past year

7- Approximately 3 out of 4 Americans start claiming Social Security benefits the moment they are eligible at age 62

8- Pension consultant Girard Miller told California's Little Hoover Commission that state and local government bodies California have $325 billion in unfunded pension liabilities

9- According to a recent report from Stanford University, California's three biggest pension funds are $500 billion short of meeting future retiree benefit obligations


10- It has been reported that the $33.7 billion Illinois Teachers Retirement System is 61% underfunded and is on the verge of complete collapse

11- The 50 states are collectively facing $5.17 trillion in pension obligations, but they only have $1.94 trillion set aside in state pension funds

12- According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Social Security system will pay out more in benefits than it receives in payroll taxes in 2010

13- By 2025, it is projected that there will be approximately two U.S. workers for each retiree

14- According to a recent U.S. government report, soaring interest costs on the U.S. national debt plus rapidly escalating spending on entitlement programs will absorb approximately 92 cents of every single dollar of federal revenue by the year 2019

15- After analyzing Congressional Budget Office data, Boston University economics professor Laurence J. Kotlikoff concluded that the U.S. government is facing a "fiscal gap" of $202 trillion

16- According to a recent AARP survey of Baby Boomers, 40 percent of them plan to work "until they drop"


Link -
http://www.d-transition.info/western-demographic-winter-2/16-statistics-about-co...
====================
Whilst I agree that Aging Global Demographics will be a serious contributor to future Economic directions, it will certainly not be the only contributor, nor will those other contributions be small and nor are the affects of these contributions restricted to the future, they have already commenced!

Certainly, the Demographic mix will have & is having a substantial impact, but so to will the Declining Global Fertility Rate, which for various reasons (in my opinion) is set to Peak within 20-30 years, then go into reverse, bringing with it another set of Demand (in decline) and Supply issues, which will further lower Global Economic Growth, before it goes into actual decline.

However, whilst POPULATION DEMOGRAPHCS is THE MAJOR ECONOMIC DRIVER, there are also a few major Economic Enablers -
1) Energy
2) Innovation/Technology

Energy is also already in Decline, with our major Energy source (being Oil) already in per capita Decline for some time and the total supply has also been in effective Decline since 2005, as the Supply of oil has failed to keep pace with Demand & Population increase.

Other Energy sources can come on stream, to "some extent" for Power Generation, for the short to medium term (5-40 years), but Oil is a major stumbling block because of its use in Transport & many other Agricultural & Manufacturing processes, including Medicine!

Innovation/Technology may still be the cavalry that rides to the rescue, again, in the nick of time, but I would not want to base "good Public Policy", on such a wing & a prayer!

Finally, there is the issue of Climate Change, which may or may not be a man made problem, although I suspect that it is and that hangs over everything like a Damocles!
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #229 - Feb 24th, 2011 at 1:07pm
 
Germany: Population Decline and the Economy


Unlike the developing countries in South Asia and in parts of Africa; Europe is not experiencing population boom as a result of improving living conditions and rising life expectancy. Germany is losing people-especially the young, as the country has low birth rate but increased life expectancy is pushing the grey population.

According to a report published at The Local, "But the population of working age people in is expected to drop by as much as 34 percent by 2060, forcing greater immigration in order to prop up the country's generous welfare system for elderly Germans. "

That is a staggering statistic. Loss of 34% of working age population could mean a huge draw back for the German economy and also to the society. As Germany is a international economic powerhouse, this decline could have global impact.

Economic decline?
Data referenced by the report at The Local also states that in the year 2030 there will be 50 retired people to every 100 working compared today's statistic- to 34 retired to every 100 working.

In context of generous welfare and pension system in place in Germany, this increase seems a huge burden. Couple with decline in working age population, this could be a severe blow to the country's economy.

Early alarm bells
In 2006, Deutsche Welle published an article on Germany's population decline and commented that business leaders are worried about loss of human capital and that it might hinder growth.

The same article also quotes leaders who warn that it not sensible to panic about the population decline. Instead the country should think about ways to innovate to match the decline.

Indeed.Looking at today's Germany, it does seem that the population decline will guide the economy to innovate and adapt. Alarm bells should go off when the system stops being innovative and tries to stay safe.

Link -
http://www.suite101.com/content/germany-population-decline-and-the-economy-a3514...
========================



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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #230 - Mar 2nd, 2011 at 10:14pm
 
Population Reduction Through Designed Economic Collapse


John Galt writes: In case you haven’t noticed, the great culling of humanity is taking place right now. Unfortunately, preparation needs to begin for two gloomy scenarios: slow economic collapse, or catastrophic demolition.

According to the elite's own admission, Corporation Earth is bankrupt and bloated and must be downsized. In other words, that which mathematically cannot continue, will not continue; and it's time to cut the fat.

Banksters and the oil cartel appear to be taking the lead to bring about the final phase of a long-range plan. Wall Street is driving up prices for essentials like food and energy to the breaking point, which is shaking every nation on earth to its core. The effect of such manipulation seems destined to lead toward a severe reduction in numbers of the human population, and a tightening of control over those who remain.


Even strong developing nations with economic surpluses like China and India are faltering in the face of such manipulated increases. Regions ill-equipped to cope with food shortages, but are oil-rich, like Northern Africa and the Middle East are quickly destabilizing as a result. Meanwhile, America has a record amount of citizens on food assistance amidst worsening unemployment.

This economic wrecking ball is having a devastating global effect.

...

The oil and Wall Street powers seem satisfied to allow the civil unrest to spread in order to feed their greed for higher oil prices and resulting control. Surely they recognize that higher oil prices will suck the remaining wealth out of the poor and middle classes around the world. This scenario will obviously cause starvation, illness, and other life-shortening effects, as increasing numbers join the ranks of the poor . . . and the poor have no where else to go.

It appears that there is no stopping this scenario unless the human tribe finds solidarity of purpose in defeating the very system that has offered only two horrible scenarios. Incidentally, the escalating global unrest is the fallout, which may have triggered such revolutionary times. The summer and autumn austerity revolts throughout Europe now have spread to oppressed Arab countries, and are being hinted at in the streets of Wisconsin and elsewhere in a formerly asleep America.

We must assume, however, that the ruling class has contingency plans for dealing with organic protests resulting from their economic hitman schemes. The dilemma for those in the human tribe who understand the purpose of these manufactured events (culling and control) is to determine whether a slow economic destruction is actually any better than rapid collapse for creating a more just and free society.

Many will say there may still be more than two ways forward if enough people wake up quickly enough, but the elite control the tap of resources (life) and they will simply turn off the switch if they are truly threatened by other possibilities. Incidentally, it's this very tap of money, oil, and food that is already being restricted to create this depression cycle. Thus, they are certainly capable of a complete switch-off that would result in a rapid collapse of resource delivery systems, while the world is becoming incrementally poorer due to their economic policy decisions.

So what is the endgame?
Complete collapse might cause immediate solidarity in communities out of sheer necessity to cooperate, which appears to present an opportunity to start over and rebuild at the local level during the period when the centralized control system will be in crisis mode. Yet, a catastrophic collapse will indeed accomplish the controllers' goal of rapid depopulation through starvation and civil unrest, as vital goods will likely disappear almost immediately, especially from mega-cities.

It seems that a slow demolition approach allows more time to educate, prepare, and propose a better way forward for society. In turn, it gives the controllers more time to situate their chess pieces and set up the high-tech control grid.

Indeed, there will be pain and suffering in both inevitable scenarios. For those on the side of humanity, a slow demolition might be preferable, as truth will always win if given enough time to reach those who are open to it. And yet, nothing is more likely to wake people up en masse than a total shutdown.

Regardless, we should seize the opportunity today to prepare people for these inevitable realities, and join forces to propose a new way forward.


Link -
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26605.html
========================
It has been said, "the best laid schemes of mice and men, often go askew".

Once we start down these slippery slopes, which I think it is likely, we already have, then the capacity for miscalculations increases dramatically and with it comes the chance of errors, of a magnitude never before imagined?

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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #231 - Mar 2nd, 2011 at 10:30pm
 




That article is right out there on the conspiracy of population culling through economic ...

That said, some of the observations and warnings hold true on a more pragmatic level - and the potential trigger for global economic collapse remains but a few hours of automated share trading away...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #232 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 4:37pm
 
Retirees will cause economic 'black hole'


A $68-BILLION pension blow out will force the Federal Government to raise immigration levels and taxes.

Economists say the mass retirement of 4.5 million post-war baby boomers over the next decade, with the first wave born in 1946 reaching the pension age of 65 this year, will lead to a $68-billion-a-year blowout in the cost of aged pensions and healthcare, creating an "Enron-style" black hole in the federal budget.

Analysis by demographic economists MacroPlan Australia, using government data, shows the annual bill for pensions will almost double to $63.5 billion a year by 2020.

Health-related spending for retirees will rise by $40 billion a year, from $51 billion in 2010 to $90.7 billion in 2020.


And experts warn the Labor Government's already-flagged measures such as increasing the Super Guarantee from 9 per cent to 12 per cent, raising the retirement age to 67 from 2017, and targeting "improved productivity" -- especially from older workers -- are "too little, too late" to avert the impending financial crisis.

"We have to radically increase the number of taxpayers through more immigration -- and increase the amount of tax we all pay," MacroPlan CEO Brian Haratsis said.

"The Government tried to raise billions through its mining tax to pay for all of this but it's fallen far short -- some say $60 billion -- of its target. Now it is talking about a $5 billion disability levy. We will see more of these little taxes introduced before the real tough decisions are made."

Although the Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs Department insists the pension system is "sustainable", Treasury's own data shows it is not.

In its latest Intergenerational Report on the ageing population, Treasury admits to a slowly shrinking budget within just seven years.

"From 2018-19 onwards . . . ageing and health pressures are projected to lead to a gradual deterioration in government finances," it says.

"A fiscal gap [deficit] is projected to emerge in 2031-32 and grow to around 2.75 per cent of GDP by 2049-50."

Economists say personal taxes will rise shortly into the next government's term to head off the massive shortfall.

The number of people aged 65 or older will this year jump by 7.8 per cent to 248,641, and increase aged pension payments by $2.4 billion to $31.8 billion. But that is just the start.

The costs steadily increase year on year, pushing the pension and income support bill for retirees to $38.5 billion in 2013-14 -- an increase of 30 per cent in just four years.

And it's not just pension payments that are spiralling.

Government spending on aged residential care will rise by $1 billion a year to $7.5 billion annually by 2013-14.

Other expenses such as community care, seniors allowances and concessions, and wages of staff at aged-care and health facilities will all rise in line with the retiring boomers, the government figures show.

All this spells bad news for generations X and Y, who will be asked to foot the bill despite already struggling with record house prices, rising interest rates, rents and utility bills.

"This is the baby bust," demographer Bernard Salt warned. "This crisis has been waiting for 30 years or more and has come home to roost.

"The costs are astronomical and adjusting to it is going to be painful and expensive."


A spokesman for Treasurer Wayne Swan said the Government faced an uphill battle.

Link -
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/retirees-will-cause-economic-black-hole/story-e6fr...
================================
Like Night follows Day, this has been comming, in fact it has been a certainty for over 50 years!


So why then, apart from the Super Guarantee set up by Labor in the late 1980's, have both major Political party's (in fact ALL) avoided this issue, like it was tainted with the Bubonic Plague?

If anyone, including Politicians from either the Labs or the Libs say, we've just discovered this problem about an Aging population (the Baby Boomer Bust) and we have to cut Health Care & Aged Pensions, you have my blessing to TELL THEM WHERE TO GO & WHAT THEY CAN DO, WHEN THEY GET THERE!

This and other issues, such as Peak Energy (Oil) & Climate Change problems, have been known for quite some time, but some (including Politicians & TPTB) have continually postponed taking action, as it was in their short term, self interest, to do so.

Well, tomorrow is now today and someone will pay, but if the pain isn't spread fairly, then the fairytale will not end well!
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #233 - Mar 21st, 2011 at 8:14pm
 
From boomers to bust

the coming demographic headwind for consumerfacing businesses

Demographics is destiny, as Auguste Comte, the founder of the discipline of sociology, famously observed. With huge numbers of people in the US and Europe moving past their prime spending years and smaller generations behind them, that destiny looks particularly difficult for consumer-facing businesses over the coming decade – unless they act now to prepare for  future that will be vastly different from the past 10–15 years.

As demographers have clearly established, the lifecycles of individuals follow predictable patterns of productivity, earning, spending, and key events like marriage and childbearing. On average in the US, for example, individuals enter the work force at about age 20, marry at 26, have children in their late 20s, buy their first home at 31, and buy a larger home in their late 30s to early 40s. Their peak spending years occur between 46-50 and their peak savings rate at age 54.

They retire at 63 and peak in net worth at 64.

Meanwhile, fertility rates, mortality rates, and immigration trends determine the size of each age cohort – that is, the age-structure of the population.
In what have historically been the largest and most lucrative markets for consumer-facing companies, demographic trends are turning unfavorable, with population bubbles like the baby boomers now moving past their peak spending years. They are being followed by generations too small in numbers to make up for the inevitable drop in consumer spending that will occur (fig 1). The spending horsepower of 77 million baby boomers in the US cannot possibly be matched by the next generation of 44 million ‘Gen X’ers’.

Nor can those baby boomers be stimulated to spend in the future as they have in the recent past, principally given their changing needs as they become empty nesters and future retirees, but also in part due to the shock to their psyche coming out of the Great Recession.

This change in the age distribution of the population, with different consumer needs at different life stages, might be positive for pharmaceutical companies but it is bad news for most other companies selling consumer products and services.

In the US, as the largest generation in history passes its peak spending years, markets will shrink for all kinds of products that are predominantly purchased by younger age cohorts.
For example, spending on furniture tends to peak for individuals in their 30s and 40s – their prime home-buying years.

The story is similar for a whole host of consumer packaged goods.

Further, people in their prime working years will have less disposable income as they are faced with the economic burden of supporting and caring for so many older people. Heavily indebted governments, like that of the US, will find it difficult to help ease that burden through additional borrowing. Japan, whose baby boom generation peaked 20 years ago, already offers a sobering picture of what is to come in much of the rest of the developed world: severe economic stagnation, including greatly shrunken markets for many categories of consumer goods, and a smaller, emerging population reeling under the task of caring for the elderly.

Confronted with the greatest demographic and economic shift in modern history, consumer-facing businesses will have to do two things supremely well in order to survive. First, they will need to develop long-term strategies designed to address these demographic headwinds around the world. Second, they will need to find leaders who have the requisite skills and experience to execute those strategies.


Link -
http://www.heidrick.com/PublicationsReports/PublicationsReports/HS_BoomersToBust...
==============================

I agree, in particular about future long term strategies & real Leaders!


That said, whilst Demographics does say a great deal about our current & future predicaments, it is not the whole story, there are other major factors also at play, many of them negative, but still a few that could be helpful.
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #234 - Mar 23rd, 2011 at 11:58am
 
THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO RUNAWAY POPULATION

(14Point Plan)

The first 11 points go to how we can stabilise Australia’s population.
1. Stabilise Australia’s population at 26 million by cutting the net overseas migration program to 70,000 per annum.
2. Cut the skilled migration program to 25,000 per annum.
3. Hold the family reunion program at 50,000 per annum.
4. Increase the refugee program from 13,750 to 20,000 per annum.
5. Alter the refugee criteria to include provision for genuine climate refugees.
6. The revised number of annual permanent arrivals from these  programs would be 95,000 - 50,000 family reunion plus 25,000 skilled plus 20,000 refugees. Two more factors need to be considered: the number of people departing permanently from Australia, and the number of people arriving permanently from New Zealand. To reach a net overseas annual migration target of 70,000, the number of automatic places available for New Zealanders needs to be restricted to the number of departures from Australia over and above 25,000. The Trans Tasman Travel Arrangement would be renegotiated to achieve this, splitting available places for New Zealanders equally between skilled migrants and family reunion, and allowing New Zealanders to also apply and compete with other applicants under these normal migration programs.
7. Reduce temporary migration to Australia by restricting sub-class 457 temporary entry visas to medical and health related and professional engineering occupations.
8. Require overseas students to return to their country of origin and complete a two-year cooling off period before being eligible to apply for permanent residence.
9. Abolish the Baby Bonus.
10. Restrict Large Family Supplement and Family Tax Benefit A for third and subsequent children to those presently receiving them.
11. Dedicate the savings from abolishing the Baby Bonus and reduced expenditure on Family Payments for third and subsequent children towards increased investment in domestic skills and training through Universities and TAFEs.
The final three points go to how we can play a role in helping stabilise global population.
12. Increase Australia’s aid to meet the United Nations target of 0.7% of Gross National Income with money saved by abolishing Fringe Benefits Tax concessions for company cars, and greater use of off the- shelf purchases in defence equipment purchases.
13. Use more of Australia’s aid budget for educating girls and women, and for better access to family planning and maternal child health, and advocate in the United Nations and international fora for other countries to do likewise.
14. Put overpopulation on the Agenda for the Copenhagen Climate Change talks.

Link -
http://www.environment.gov.au/sustainability/population/consultation/submissions...
=============================
There is a lot more to this article & I recommend the read.

There is also the following speech that Kelvin gave in Parliament last year that also goes to the same issue.
http://www.kelvinthomson.com.au/Editor/assets/pop_debate/101004%20speech%20to%20...

As usual, I would agree with some of Kelvin's reasoning & disagree with others!

In particular, amongst the many reasons given for wanting to restrict the Australian & Global Population increase, which include -
global warming, food crisis, water shortages, housing affordability, overcrowded cities, transport congestion, fisheries collapse, species extinctions, increasing prices, waste, war and terrorism
But it fails to mention Peak Energy, which is probably THE MOST PRESSING of all reasons, along with Climate Change!

There are some things that can easily be implemented, whilst others would be more difficult.

In my opinion, cutting the Baby Bonus, would be one of the first to be implemented.

There are a couple of areas in this report that may be somewhat misleading and one of those is where Kelvin says, "Australia’s fertility rate has moved between 2004 and 2007 from 1.76 to 1.93 children per women. This does not mean that births are less than deaths."

Whilst this may be technically correct, as there is usually a lag or catch up period of time, it is never-the-less a fact that any fertility rate less than 2.1 children per women, will eventually translate into a declining population, unless immigration levels are adjusted higher to compensate.

But 2.1 is the accepted ZPG, as far as births & deaths are concerned!

There are massive ramifications, whichever path is chosen, so it is a Political debate that simply must take place and it should get underway (in earnest) earlier, rather than later!  

Btw, I think Australia will likely stabilise at less than its current Population, by the end of this century, one way or another!


Finally, by way of comparison, you may be interested in the following article, in which Demographers suggest that the Russian Population may decline by around 17%, from 140 million today, to around 116 million in 2050.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Demographers-Warn-of-Looming-Populati...
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #235 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:00pm
 
Peak Oil and Depopulation


The growth of the human population cannot continue forever—there is a limit to our numbers, even if we cannot specify what that limit might be.  There is also a limit to how much oil can be extracted from our planet, even if we don’t know exactly how much oil there really is.  

These two variables are related because cheap oil has allowed us to support a population that is much larger than it would be otherwise.  

Despite more than 200,000 years of living and growing, the population of Homo sapiens never even reached one billion before the beginning of the era of fossil fuels.  

Today there are nearly seven billion of us and much of the era of fossil fuels is becoming visible in the rearview mirror.


Because neoclassical economics depends on sustained growth (an oxymoron to anyone outside of economics), the thought of depopulation has created concern, if not outright horror, among numerous economists.
That ones especially for you, FD!


At the same time, because they still believe that economic growth will bring population growth in poor countries under control, they worry not in the least about the demographic futures of places like Bangladesh, Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia.

Russia provides a glimpse of what we may recognize as the third demographic transition, one in which mortality rates rise again, bringing about not just an equilibrium in which population finally stabilizes but a period of depopulation that gradually encompasses much of the world.  

Nothing in either the first or second demographic transition models predicted what has happened in Russia, as is apparent in the figure below
...

This third demographic transition, still preliminary at this point, will force us to focus on mortality, which will begin to rise as cheap oil disappears over the horizon.

Signs of this are appearing regularly, as we see in the figure below, with its food price spikes and general upward trend in food prices since 2002.
...

Though many economists and others praise the “Chinese economic miracle,” few if any credit it in large part to the decision to initiate a one-child policy in 1979, a policy that has led to a current Chinese population that is about 400 million less than it would have been otherwise. Add those 400 million into China today and there would be no Chinese economic miracle to talk about. Had that Chinese lesson been followed three decades ago throughout the poor world, then chances of the poor countries reaching demographic stability and achieving better living standards would have been greatly improved.

Instead we continue to add more than 80 million people to the world each year, almost entirely to the poor countries, and economists keep ensuring them that all will be well in the long run because economic growth will save them from themselves. Since the United States consumes about a quarter of the world’s energy resources, with less than five percent of the world’s population, the promises of economists have always rung hollow. But they ring even more hollow today as Japan struggles with recovery from its devastating earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear disasters and unrest continues to spread throughout the North Africa and the Middle East.

We have to question the promise to the poor countries that economic growth will solve their demographic problems. That was not the case in China and going forward it will not be the case in most poor countries because the rising cost of fossil fuels will not be able to deliver the needed productivity increases. The Ponzi scheme of neoclassical economics, based on the faulty assumption that growth can continue forever, is edging toward its Bernie Madoff moment.

The third demographic transition model is based first on an assumption of the obvious: Population growth cannot continue forever. Beyond that, it assumes that the era of cheap fossil fuels has ended, no matter what effort is made to maintain it. That assumption is based on the fundamental concept that oil is both an extraordinary source of energy and finite in supply. In addition the model assumes that food production will decline worldwide as oil becomes more expensive. In turn that will lead to higher food prices, so feeding the poor will become ever more tenuous. This trend will be further exacerbated as rich countries, especially the United States, turn more to using food crops and cropland to produce liquid fuels to continue what James Howard Kunstler has dubbed “happy motoring.”

Needless to say, the third demographic transition will not only curtail population growth in the decades ahead, it will lead to depopulation as our numbers decline back toward more sustainable numbers. I doubt that Earth will see the 9.15 billion people that the United Nations projected in its medium variant for 2050; even the 7.96 billion in its low variant seems highly unlikely. After all, that is a billion more than we have today.


Link -
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Peak-Oil-and-Depopulation.html
========================
A few observations -
1) I agree with the basic trust, that Energy (particularly Oil) & Population growth, are explicitly linked.
2) Many resources, including Food Production & Prices, are also explicitly linked to Energy (particularly Oil).

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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #236 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:26pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:00pm:
there is a limit to our numbers, even if we cannot specify what that limit might be.  


Precisely.
We cannot know what that limit might be. Malthus was wrong. Ehrlich was wrong. The Chinese one child policy was wrong. Bob Brown is always wrong. And so is Peter Singer.
Have another kid.





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Soren
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #237 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:29pm
 
Any ideology that sees children as the heart of the problem is a buggered ideology.

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It_is_the_Darkness
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #238 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 11:46pm
 
Apparently the (Dick) Smith Family advises Australians to only have x2 children so as not to 'over-populate' Australia and loose our 'quality of living' standard.
This is true in a way.
John Howard made sure all the women in Australia were working rather than laying down with their feet up in the air for his unemployment statistic and wealth gained.
Kevin Rudd proved how wealthy we were in comparison to other nations during the economic crises, only because we had a small population of children to waste money on.

We are consistenly in the Top 5 of the Highest Suicide Rate in the World. - if not 'the' top.

I didn't know that Australia would be 'over-populated at 35 million Mr Dick Smith. Maybe you should curb immigration or is that like saying no to chinese people who look like you Mr Smith?

Fact is: Australia will recieve a self-sustaining population growth and an increase of 200 million. This is because Australia's Minimalistic approach to population, will be projected upon the rest of the world as the answer to the overall global problem of over-population.
Look at it this way. x1 region of the world becomes heavily increased in population while x7 other regions 'decrease'.
Australia is the 'key' to the over-population situation.

PS: You're comic strip of the Reindeer is spot on, though many species under the same situation are able to 'survive' such a drastic crash. Even the Pitcairn Islanders had a bit of a cull happen.
Most species that suffer such crashes do recouperate, but for some inherant reason, they never over-populate beyond a 1/4 quarter of their former size in number.

China will go SuperNova - collapse under the weight of such a huge population trying to live up to the modern standard as imposed by ...Australia, specifically. Wink
India will also suffer a major population decrease - more from Nuke war than anything.
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« Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2011 at 11:51pm by It_is_the_Darkness »  

SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #239 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 11:56pm
 
Soren wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:26pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:00pm:
there is a limit to our numbers, even if we cannot specify what that limit might be.  


Precisely.
We cannot know what that limit might be. Malthus was wrong. Ehrlich was wrong. The Chinese one child policy was wrong. Bob Brown is always wrong. And so is Peter Singer.
Have another kid.



Malthus, Ehrlich etc had the basics correct, but the timing wrong.

How does that old one go, even a stopped clock is correct, twice a day? Yes, I know, but it is correct!

As for the chinese, if they had continued with the status quo, the estimate is they would now have 400 million more people. Given the state of Global Food & Energy supply, plus the threats of Climate Change, what impact do you think another 400 million people would have, now?

No,  Malthus & Ehrlich had the basics right & that stopped clock, is now showing the right time!
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