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The Population Debate (Read 181997 times)
perceptions_now
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #390 - Dec 24th, 2012 at 6:03pm
 
Americans put off having babies amid poor economy


Twenty-somethings who postponed having babies because of the poor economy are still hesitant to jump in to parenthood — an unexpected consequence that has dropped the USA's birthrate to its lowest point in 25 years.

The fertility rate is not expected to rebound for at least two years and could affect birthrates for years to come, according to Demographic Intelligence, a Charlottesville, Va., company that produces quarterly birth forecasts for consumer products and pharmaceutical giants such as Pfizer and Procter & Gamble.

Marketers track fertility trends closely because they affect sales of thousands of products from diapers, cribs and minivans to baby bottles, toys and children's pain relievers.

As the economy tanked, the average number of births per woman fell 12% from a peak of 2.12 in 2007. Demographic Intelligence projects the rate to hit 1.87 this year and 1.86 next year — the lowest since 1987.

The effect of this economic slump on birthrates has been more rapid and long-lasting than any downturn since the Great Depression.

"Usually consumer sentiment bounces back a little quicker," Sturgeon says. "People are a bit in a wait-and-see pattern.

The U.S. fertility rate has been the envy of the developed world because it has remained close to the replacement rate of 2.1 (the number of children each woman must have to maintain current population) for more than 20 years.

Asian and European countries, where fertility rates are as low as 1.1 (Taiwan) and 1.3 (Portugal), are worried about their populations aging and not having enough young workers to support them.


Immigration has helped the USA maintain higher birthrates, but that segment has been hard hit by this downturn. The birthrate for Hispanics tumbled from 3 in 2007 to less than 2.4 in 2010, the latest official government statistics.

Hispanic immigration has slowed, and studies show some immigrants have returned home.

"That's going to have an effect," says Carl Haub, demographer at the Population Reference Bureau. "Their overall proportions of births are enormous — roughly 25% of the U.S. total."

Link -
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-25/low-US-birthrate-eco...
=================================
Much lower Fertility rates
+ Losing Largest Generation  (Boomers) in history
= BIG ECONOMIC HIT!!!
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perceptions_now
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #391 - Feb 2nd, 2013 at 12:14pm
 
Japan’s Demographic Disaster IS ALSO OURS


Japan is faced with an unprecedented population challenge that will have social, economic, and political consequences for years to come.

Projections by the Japanese government indicate that if the current trend continues, the population of Japan will decline from its current 127.5 million to 116.6 million in 2030, and 97 million in 2050. This is truly astonishing and puts Japan at the forefront of uncharted demographic territory; but it is territory that many other industrial countries also are beginning to enter as well.

While predicting the future of these demographic trends is difficult, the causes are at least somewhat decipherable. Various studies of demographic change in Japan have linked declining fertility to other changing social factors such as increased education, delayed marriage age, more economic opportunities for women, and the expense of raising children in modern, urban societies. All of these have played a role in reducing fertility over the past few decades.

Another problem Japan faces is that the general low fertility rate means there are not enough younger people paying into the national pension program, and this will cause increasing strain on government coffers as the proportion of elderly (currently about 23% of the population is over 65) continues to grow.

Finally, the decline of the population over the next few decades, and the shortage of young people in particular, will have a significant impact on the Japanese labor force.

One obvious solution to this would be for Japan to relax immigration policies and allow for more workers, particularly healthcare workers, to enter the country.

Obviously, only time will tell. But Japan is faced with an unprecedented population challenge that will have social, economic, and political consequences over the next century—consequences that will not only affect Japan, but also influence Japan’s trading partners as well as its political and military allies.

Link -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-01/japan%E2%80%99s-demographic-disaster
================================
Japan has already started down a path, which most other countries will follow.

It started earlier than most, because its Population Growth Peaked earlier than most & Declined quicker, after WW2. Japan also has the additional issue of being anti immigration, although I expect immigration to become more of a problem elsewhere, as well, albeit for different reasons.

The usual answer to this problem, in the past, would simply be another Baby Boom, to generate additional Demand, which is one of the usual two major Economic drivers. However, the Economic Boom created by the Baby Boomer generation, meant that many women were promoted to enter the workforce, as a means to increase the Worker participation rate and that, plus increasing costs & awareness by women, led to a continued Decline in Fertility rates, when they would usually increase.

That said, even if TPTB wanted another Baby Boom, several major factors would stand in the way -
1) Demographics - The Global Human Population has already grown from 1 Billion in 1800, to 2 billion in 1930, to 7 Billion in 2012 and we are already at the outer limits of being able to sustain the existing Population, in terms of Food, Water & most importantly Energy, SO ANOTHER GLOBAL BABY BOOM IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE.

2) Energy - Existing per capita Energy Supply has been in Decline already, for some time. However, over the last 10-15 years that has started to translate into actual & substantial Price increases. Most important of all the EROEI (Energy Return On Energy Invested) has started to go into serious Decline & this means that spare Energy capacity to push Productivity is also in serious Decline. Also in Decline, is the level of Disposable income that is available to individuals, Businesses & Governments and as the Energy position deteriorates over the next 10-20 years, the amount of Disposable income will shrink dramatically!

3) Climate Change - Whatever anyone thinks of the reasoning, we are obviously headed towards a Peak of the current cycles Warming period. That situation will lead to a greater frequency & intensity of Extreme weather events, with wet areas more susceptible to flood events, drier areas being more susceptible to droughts, BUT overall the planet will warm.
So whether anyone believes in AGW or not, we are at that part of the cycle. That said, I find the basic science on AGW is most likely correct and that will result in us speeding up the cycle to Peak Earlier, before sending us into the next Ice Age.
All of which means, the "goldilocks" climate is ending & with that Global Food Production will increasing become more difficult to feed the existing Population, let alone any more!

So, there will be no more Baby Booms & Japan will very much be "the Canary in the Coal Mine"!
Sorry, couldn't resist the pun!

Finally, Bill Clinton said, “it’s the Economy stupid” AND what this scenario translates into is exactly that. With Population & Energy both set to go into Decline, the Global Economy can only follow & the longer Politicians & TPTB try to avoid the inevitable Decline in Demand & REAL GDP's, the worse the REAL Economy will finally become!

Our Pollies need to start thinking outside the square!!!
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #392 - Feb 15th, 2013 at 11:10am
 
America's Baby Bust


...

For more than three decades, Chinese women have been subjected to their country's brutal one-child policy. As a result, Chinese women have a fertility rate of 1.54. Here in America, white, college-educated women—a good proxy for the middle class—have a fertility rate of 1.6. America has its very own one-child policy.

Forget the debt ceiling. Forget the fiscal cliff, the sequestration cliff and the entitlement cliff. Those are all just symptoms. What America really faces is a demographic cliff: The root cause of most of our problems is our declining fertility rate.


The fertility rate is the number of children an average woman bears over the course of her life. The replacement rate is 2.1.

Today, America's total fertility rate is 1.93

The nation's falling fertility rate underlies many of our most difficult problems. Once a country's fertility rate falls consistently below replacement, its age profile begins to shift. You get more old people than young people. And eventually, as the bloated cohort of old people dies off, population begins to contract. This dual problem—a population that is disproportionately old and shrinking overall—has enormous economic, political and cultural consequences.

For two generations we've been lectured about the dangers of overpopulation. But the conventional wisdom on this issue is wrong, twice. First, global population growth is slowing to a halt and will begin to shrink within 60 years. Second, as the work of economists Esther Boserups and Julian Simon demonstrated, growing populations lead to increased innovation and conservation.

Low-fertility societies don't innovate because their incentives for consumption tilt overwhelmingly toward health care. They don't invest aggressively because, with the average age skewing higher, capital shifts to preserving and extending life and then begins drawing down. They cannot sustain social-security programs because they don't have enough workers to pay for the retirees.

There has been a great deal of political talk in recent years about whether America, once regarded as the shining city on a hill, is in decline. But decline isn't about whether Democrats or Republicans hold power; it isn't about political ideology at all. At its most basic, it's about the sustainability of human capital. Whether Barack Obama or Mitt Romney took the oath of office last month, we would still be declining in the most important sense—
demographically. It is what drives everything else.


But our fertility rate isn't going up any time soon. In fact, it's probably heading lower. Much lower.

America's fertility rate began falling almost as soon as the nation was founded. In 1800, the average white American woman had seven children. Since then, our fertility rate has floated consistently downward, with only one major moment of increase—the baby boom. In 1940, America's fertility rate was already skirting the replacement level, but after the war it jumped and remained elevated for a generation. Then, beginning in 1970, it began to sink like a stone.

By 1973, the U.S. was below the replacement rate, as was nearly every other Western country. Since then, the phenomenon of fertility collapse has spread around the globe

If you want to see what happens to a country once it hurls itself off the demographic cliff, look at Japan, with a fertility rate of 1.3.


The Japanese fertility rate began dipping beneath the replacement rate in 1960 for a number of complicated reasons (including a postwar push by the West to lower Japan's fertility rate, the soaring cost of having children and an overall decline in the marriage rate). By the 1980s, it was already clear that the country would eventually undergo a population contraction.

From 1950 to 1973, Japan's total-factor productivity—a good measure of economic dynamism—increased by an average of 5.4% per year. From 1990 to 2006, it increased by just 0.63% per year.

Because of its dismal fertility rate, Japan's population peaked in 2008; it has already shrunk by a million since then. At the current fertility rate, by 2100 Japan's population will be less than half what it is now.

Conservatives like to think that if we could just provide the right tax incentives for childbearing, then Americans might go back to having children the way they did 40 years ago. Liberals like to think that if we would just be more like France—offer state-run day care and other programs so women wouldn't have to choose between working and motherhood—it would solve the problem. But the evidence suggests that neither path offers more than marginal gains.

Which leaves us with outsourcing our fertility. We've received a massive influx of immigrants from south of the border since the late 1970s. Immigration has kept America from careening over the demographic cliff.

If you strip these immigrants—and their relatively high fertility rates—from our population profile, America suddenly looks an awful lot like continental Europe, which has a fertility rate of 1.5., if not quite as demographically terminal as Japan.

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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #393 - Feb 15th, 2013 at 11:41am
 
America's Baby Bust (Cont)


Relying on immigration to prop up our fertility rate also presents several problems, the most important of which is that it's unlikely to last. Historically, countries with fertility rates below replacement level start to face their own labor shortages, and they send fewer people abroad.

Many countries in South America are already below replacement level, and they send very few immigrants our way. And every other country in Central and South America is on a steep dive toward the replacement line.

That is what's happened in Mexico. In 1970, the Mexican fertility rate was 6.72. Today, it's just at replacement, a drop of 72% in 40 years. Mexico used to send us several hundred thousand immigrants a year. For the last three years, there has been a net immigration of zero. Some of this decrease is probably related to the recent recession, but much of it is likely the result of a structural shift.


In the face of this decline, the only thing that will preserve America's place in the world is if all Americans—Democrats, Republicans, Hispanics, blacks, whites, Jews, Christians and atheists—decide to have more babies.


The problem is that, while making babies is fun, raising them isn't.

If we want to continue leading the world, we simply must figure out a way to have more babies.

Link -
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323375204578270053387770718.html?m...
================================
As usual, there are issues on which I agree with the author & issues where I do not agree.

In respect of Demographics, I certainly agree that it is the major Global Economic driver. However, it should be noted that Demographics has been ably assisted by two great Economic enablers, over the last 200 years or so -
1) Abundant Supplies of Energy at Cheap Prices.
2) A Goldilocks Climate 

However, those two enablers are now in Decline and that will prevent another Baby Boom, which will prevent any Economic resurgence!

Of course, it is the authors comments on immigration Decline, which I agree is an area where we should realise it will become more difficult to rely on, as one of our "standard" fixes. It will become more akin to the "land export" model in Oil Export, where the land of origin realises it has an increased need for the Oil/Skilled Labour & they start to retain more & more of what is produced, for use in the land of origin. This will have significant impact in many areas, BUT the impact on our Aging Boomers & the Health Care sector, will be particularly difficult to handle, as some 40-50% of all health care personnel (Baby Boomers) will retire over the next 10-15 years and other countries will start fighting (tooth & nail) to retain their health care professionals.


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« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2013 at 3:04pm by perceptions_now »  
 
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #394 - Mar 12th, 2013 at 8:44pm
 
Quote:
The problem is that, while making babies is fun, raising them isn't.


Says who? Okay wiping arses isn't the greatest, but once that stage is over kids are a joy and seeing them make their way in the world in their twenties and thirties is a big pay day, if you did the job right that is.
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #395 - Mar 15th, 2013 at 12:32am
 
something I will never experience....

I'm sure it can be a source of great joy....  just not for me.

The population debate?? 
I fail to see what there is to debate... 
It is painfully obvious that there are too many people on the Earth.
Your arguments seem to be some fantasy that white folk are better than others... and so we must BREED to overcome...  (witness.. the baby bonus etc) and hey  thats perfectly human..  The Chinese.  or some of them... have been trying to prove they are actually a separate and superior race of humans for some time now..

They have been undone by the human genome mapping ...  even the most devout chinese scientist  ..striving to show this,  has had to admit that Chinese derive from the same source as all the rest of us.

The topic to me seems redundant..

There is nothing to debate...

all this other stuff is old thinking.




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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #396 - Mar 15th, 2013 at 4:45am
 
I watched a sliders episode yesterday where the world they went to had only 500m population worldwide. San francisco was 100k ppl. Everything was cheap and everyone had jobs and there was lots of parklands.

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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #397 - Mar 17th, 2013 at 12:34pm
 
Population Overload: Global Growth Trends And Investing


Demographics play a major role in the rise and fall of civilizations, which in turn may encourage where you elect to invest. As such, I thought it would be thought-provoking to see how the populations represented by some international ETFs, stack up against the U.S. demographically.

Using estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau, the population growth over the next 25 years for the population 65 years of age or older, is and continues to be expected to increase at historical rates. To my surprise the market with the fastest overall population growth between now and 2032 is not in the emerging markets, but rather the United States, which is expected to grow 23% from 307 million now to 357 million in the next quarter century.

...

The population represented by the MSCI Emerging Market index (EEM) is expected to grow 18% over the same period, dragged down by double-digit population declines South Africa (about 8% of EEM assets) and Russia (8%), as well as virtual stagnation in Korea, which is 14.5% of the index. This is partially offset by a population explosion in India, but Indian companies are only about 6% of index assets. Meanwhile the one-child policy for urban couples in China (FXI)-adopted in an era of scarcity when few were thinking about having the manpower necessary to sustain growth-has resulted in a relatively slow-growing population.

Japan is facing substantial population declines over the coming quarter century and the country also drags down the overall population growth of countries in the MSCI EAFE index (EFA) of developed-markets. The U.K. (EWU) is favored to continental Europe, where population regresses in Germany, Spain, Italy and Finland are expected to decrease the overall population growth rates for the S&P Europe 350 (IEV), even though U.K. companies represent almost a third of that index

The U.S. (SPY) has the youngest average population of any developed market, and is expected to keep that designation in the future, but Latin America (ILF) and Brazil (EWZ) take the overall prize for the youngest populations, both now and in 2032.

China may be the first country in history to grow old before it gets rich: by 2032 its elderly liability will be approximately as high as it is in the U.S., but the country won't have nearly the same resources on a per capita basis to deal with the challenges.

What does all of this mean?
Unfortunately, the aforementioned analysis isn't likely to produce any short-term trading ideas, but it does provide some outlook for a thematic approach to transnational investing.

The U.S. is relatively well-off compared to other industrialized markets. It will be better able to grow its way out of its complications, and its companies could see faster earnings growth, which in turn would justify the slight premium U.S. companies get over European firms.

China-hype may be misplaced. China is older than the other emerging markets overall, and is expected to see much slower population growth as well. Twenty-five years from now, India will have the world's largest population, about 100 million ahead of China-and they'll be much younger too.

The question of whether Japan is emerging from a roughly 17-year economic slump is academic; in the long run, the country is essentially dying. Global winners like Toyota (TM) are relatively insusceptible and may thrive regardless, but the fortunes of most of companies in EWJ are indisputably linked to the vanishing Japanese consumer.

Societies can undergo significant changes in a quarter century that could alter birth rates, death rates, and immigration, and as a result, demographics. And as alluded to in reference to Toyota, in our global economy, it probably makes less difference where a company has its headquarters today than it did a generation ago. My analysis is nowhere near perfect, and in some respects purely speculation; perhaps the biggest inadequacy is the extremely long-term nature of the analysis itself. While we pride ourselves on being long-term investors, demographics is not destiny, and as the famous economist John Maynard Keynes said, "In the long run, we're all dead."

Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1276751-population-overload-global-growth-trends...
=================================
The following World Bank website shows that Global Population growth is slowing, pretty much everywhere and that is one of the major factors that is & will dictate the Global Economy, over the next several decades.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.GROW

In addition, the slowing Energy Supply, rising Prices & a changing Climate (ensuring Food & Water problems), will ensure that "projected" Population NEVER HAPPENS.

The reality is, the Global Population will struggle to reach 8 Billion, before going into a long Decline! 

Oh & I nearly forgot to mention, the Decline in Population Growth will also gather pace, over the next several decades, as the Baby Boomer generation start leaving us forever, in ever increasing numbers!
 
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #398 - Mar 23rd, 2013 at 7:53pm
 
Squaring Up To A Low Growth World


There wasn't much of an outcry in the media when the U.S. Congressional Budget Office told the Senate Budget Committee and the House Budget Committee that instead of achieving 3.0% growth in 2013 as had been widely reported, the CBO expected the U.S. economy to grow by no more than 1.5% by the end of this year. That is way below trend for the U.S. economy.

Reduced Federal spending and the expiration of the 2% point cut in the Social Security payroll tax, plus increases in tax rates on income above certain thresholds, will all have a dampening effect of around 1.5% in total on the economy, the CBO says.

As a result, unemployment in the U.S. will continue to run at around 7.5% through 2014, giving the U.S. its sixth consecutive year with unemployment at or higher than 7.5%, the worst performance in terms of jobs for 40 years.

This would be depressing enough as a view of the likely course of the U.S. economy, but Jeremy Grantham, co-founder and chief investment strategist at GMO (Grantham, Mayo Van Otterloo), with $97 billion in assets under management, argues in a November 2012 Newsletter that the good old days of
the U.S. enjoying trend growth in excess of 3% a year are not just "hiding behind temporary setbacks", they are gone forever!


"Going forward GDP growth conventionally measured for the U.S. is likely to be only 1.4% a year, and adjusted growth about 0.9%," he says.


But
Grantham points out that
the U.S. population growth is set to "bob along at less than half a percent" instead of the 1.5% a year seen in the 1970s. This means that man-hours worked annually are likely to be growing at only 0.2%, hardly a massive boost to GDP. Moreover productivity improvements are seen at their best in manufacturing, and manufacturing now only accounts for around 9% of the U.S. economy. Not good
.

The following paragraph from the GMO newsletter on the impact of demographics on growth is worth pondering:

   
The demographic inputs peaked around 1970 at nearly 2% a year growth
(there are many ways to do these calculations, each yielding slightly different results).
They fell to about 1% average growth for the last 30 years and demographic effects are now down to about 0.2%
a year increase in man-hours where they are likely to remain until 2050, with possibly a very slight downward bias.

The demographic issue is hard enough to get around, but GMO says that there are two further structural issues that will simply confirm that growth will be very hard to find going forward. The first of these is diminishing resources and increasing pressure to account for those resources properly, including water. The second is the damaging effects of climate change, which GMO sees as adding significantly to costs, especially from 2030 and beyond.


Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1291761-squaring-up-to-a-low-growth-world?source...
==============================
A few observations -
1) "Demographics is destiny" ― Arthur Kemp
2) I would suggest that large boosts to immigration in the US or elsewhere is unlikely for various reasons and as the Boomer generation is set to start dying in ever increasing numbers, over the next 5-20 years, it is likely that the average Growth attributable to Demographic effects will actually go negative over the next 5-10 years & it will then continue that trend for some time!
3) In isolation, this Demographic time-bomb would provide some formidable Economic obstacles!

However, on this occasion, with diminishing resources, including Energy & Water Resources (although some areas may get too much water), plus the effects of Climate Change gathering pace, THE COMBINATION OF THESE 3 MAJOR ECONOMIC FACTORS ARE VERY LIKELY TO CREATE A ONCE IN HISTORY SET OF ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, WHICH WILL PERSIST FOR DECADES. 

As I have said previously, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT & NO AMOUNT OF POLITICAL RHETORIC WILL CHANGE THESE FACTORS.

This puts an entirely new perspective on Bill Clinton assertion that, "IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID"! 
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #399 - Mar 23rd, 2013 at 9:46pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Feb 15th, 2013 at 11:41am:
America's Baby Bust (Cont)



,,,,,,,,In the face of this decline, the only thing that will preserve America's place in the world is if all Americans—Democrats, Republicans, Hispanics, blacks, whites, Jews, Christians and atheists—decide to have more babies...........

Cool
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #400 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 12:34am
 
yeah perceptnow... 

I  understand  .. and actually agree..  that the long term outcome of massive overpopulation now,  will/is resulting in
spin off harm ...  which will likely ,  very shortly...  Smiley
create a whole new demographic...  human populations will decrease,  as will life expectancy..   hasn't it already?? 

does it depend on the view of the statistician.. the inevitable skewing of data because of the umm world-view ? of the observer?

what is that ancient chinese curse >??


...may you live in  interesting times......
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #401 - May 5th, 2013 at 4:42pm
 
The Coming Demographic Shift: How To Invest


I believe that given a large enough sample size, the past is the best indicator of the future. From credit expansion and collapse to global terrorism, the human race has experienced almost everything in some form.

However, there is a new and unprecedented phenomenon. The world is rapidly aging, and in the 21st century populations will age more rapidly than ever before. This demographic shift will take place throughout most of the developed world resulting in sizeable reductions in labor forces, thus triggering mass immigration. Moreover, this demographic shift will further weaken global pension programs due to mortality improvements and a decrease in the number of current workers to beneficiaries.
Aging will also generate a number of opportunities for investors such as a massive boom in the healthcare sector
and give rise to reverse equity transactions and global longevity risk markets.

Ageing & Pensions
The idea that aging will have a profoundly negative impact on the global economy has been around for decades but has been dismissed or taken a back seat to other more "important" problems. Unfortunately, all the years spent avoiding the aging & pension problem has served to magnify the issue.

In 2008 the number of deaths in Japan outnumbered the number of births 1.14 million to 1.09 million respectively and the population fell by 51,000 according to the Health Ministry. By 2050 both Japan and Russia will lose over 20% of their populations and 38% of Korea will be over 65, making it one of the oldest nations in the world. Since 2006, an astonishing 330 people have turned 60 every hour in the US. Over 12% of the US's population and 16% of the UK's population is 65 or older, compared to 5.2% in India and 8% in China, suggesting the East will be the economic powerhouse of the new era.

Although longer living populations are a good thing, increased longevity can strain the economy, specifically retirement and healthcare programs. In the US,
social security and Medicare currently account for roughly 7% of the GDP, but within the next 25 to 30 years these programs will account for nearly 13%, essentially the majority of the entire federal budget.
Proposals have been made to prevent these disasters, such as opening borders to immigrants to prop up the work force, privatizing government programs and increasing the retirement age from 65 to 71.

Mass immigration will cause a number of national security problems and people are simply not fungible assets. Skill and education level must be comparable for immigrants to take on many of the skilled labor jobs the baby boomers will leave behind. Moreover, the sheer number of immigrants necessary to counteract the baby boomer phenomenon would be unthinkable.

Conclusion
Around the world, and especially here in the U.S., people are starting to worry about the fiscal future of our country. It is absolutely imperative now more than ever to carefully evaluate our next step. The aging of the developed nations and its effects are NOT theory, rather economic and political fact. Massive government spending during times of financial instability will only exacerbate the aging problem and further cripple US growth.

Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1398431-the-coming-demographic-shift-how-to-inve...
==============================
Whilst it is certain that the Health Care industry would have to expand greatly, IF it is to keep up with the needs o a rapidly Aging Global Population, there are "grave" doubts that the industry will have the Global Employee numbers capacity required & the costs to the many are likely to far outweigh the benefits to the few!
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #402 - May 5th, 2013 at 8:32pm
 
which raises the question of voluntary euthanasia.. 

which is definitely a plus idea. 

Your thoughts..??  It's tough one,  but an issue which must be considered, nevertheless.
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #403 - May 6th, 2013 at 1:46pm
 
Emma wrote on May 5th, 2013 at 8:32pm:
which raises the question of voluntary euthanasia.. 

which is definitely a plus idea. 

Your thoughts..??  It's tough one,  but an issue which must be considered, nevertheless.


I would see that as a personal decision only, not systemically Political, nor Religious!

That said, the individual should be made aware of all relevant issues & counselled, prior to taking irrevocable actions!
 
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Emma
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Re: The Population Debate
Reply #404 - May 6th, 2013 at 6:28pm
 
The problem is though, percepnow,..it IS political, because Laws enacted by our governments make it illegal for anyone to provide assistance for the purpose of taking one's own life. Also, I think it is only rarely that it is solely a personal decision, as these things so often involve loved ones.. 

Many people require assistance, when they make the decision...  NOT a free CHOICE by the way..  and people who love them can be in all sorts of poo  if they want to help.
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