Australian Politics Forum - Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism

NorthOfNorth

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Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Jun 20^th, 2010 at 10:16pm

Quote:

thelastnail wrote on Yesterday at 9:52pm:
freediver wrote on Yesterday at 9:49pm:
Quote:
Unlike the claimed existence of God a personal ambition is not some physical entity that exists outside your own brain.

So justice and the number 10 only exist in the brain? Can you prove that God is a physical entity?

No I can't, can you do that ??

Please provide the evidence Wink

I am not the one who made the claim, you are.

Quote:
You talk like atheism is some sort of religion when all it is, is just the refusal to accept silly fairy tales about Gods as being true.

But it is a religion. It is a belief regarding the existence of dieties. It is not merely a refusal to believe, but accepting a belief in the opposite claim. Given the reasons many atheists give for their beliefs, it is kind of hypocritical. It is the agnostics who do not believe.

Lastnail - We've been through all this before with freediver. You're right atheism is not a religion.

Check out the 30 pages of atheism vs agnosticism below

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1269084488/333

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« Last Edit: Jun 20^th, 2010 at 10:29pm by NorthOfNorth »

Conviction is the art of being certain

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Reply #1 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 10:23pm

LMAO!

Ohhh there is a well known agnostic/intellectual who posted on Yahoo (and was sadly driven away by multi flamers/trolls after incessant abuse) .. and something tells me he needs to see this topic

<< chuckles to herself as she recalls the good old days >>

Hmm I might just email him now .. and tell him all about this forum lol

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perceptions_now

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Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Reply #2 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 10:30pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 10:16pm:

Quote:

thelastnail wrote on Yesterday at 9:52pm:
freediver wrote on Yesterday at 9:49pm:
Quote:
Unlike the claimed existence of God a personal ambition is not some physical entity that exists outside your own brain.

So justice and the number 10 only exist in the brain? Can you prove that God is a physical entity?

No I can't, can you do that ??

Please provide the evidence Wink

I am not the one who made the claim, you are.

Quote:
You talk like atheism is some sort of religion when all it is, is just the refusal to accept silly fairy tales about Gods as being true.

But it is a religion. It is a belief regarding the existence of dieties. It is not merely a refusal to believe, but accepting a belief in the opposite claim. Given the reasons many atheists give for their beliefs, it is kind of hypocritical. It is the agnostics who do not believe.

Lastnail - We've been through all this before with freediver. You're right atheism is not a religion.

Check out the 30 pages of atheism vs agnosticism below

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1269084488/405

Each to their own!

So long as no one forces their thoughts on another, either physically or otherwise, then we should all be entitled to our understanding of life and its meaning.

Personally, I am agnostic, but I have always difficulty with the entire issue.

There seems to be two opposing camps -
1) Everything that has ever and will ever happen, is pre-determined, is part of the great plan and therefore choice and freedom of thought, are just an illusion.

2) There is no god, chaos is the only universal rule and our choices will determine the future of humanity.

Which is more difficult to believe?
Which is more unpalatable?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Reply #3 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 10:30pm

Atheism is disbelieving the proposition that god exists. Nothing more.

Disbelieving is not attributively the same as believing or the believing-in or the having-faith-in.

It is therefore not required of the "atheist" to prove the thing in which he disbelieves as he is not proposing, or believing-in, or having-faith-in the existence of anything in particular.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Reply #4 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 6:02am

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My point with these questions is that contrary to the simplistic and self aggrandising claims we so often see here from atheists, you cannot draw a clear intellectual line between atheists and religious people, with one following the evidence and the other believing fairy tales. In fact it tends to be the religious people who are far more aware of, and honest about, the philosophical basis for their beliefs. It is the atheists who are deluding themselves into thinking their beliefs are purely based on evidence.

FD - atheism defines a lack of belief not a belief in itself.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Guildford Gold Member Offline It's Only Me Posts: 500 SE Victoria Gender:	Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism Reply #5 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 6:21am I've always found it interesting that people spend so much time talking about something they know not to exist. It seems like a total waste of time to me.
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muso

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Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Reply #6 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 8:39am

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Lastnail - We've been through all this before with freediver. You're right atheism is not a religion.

Check out the 30 pages of atheism vs agnosticism below

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1269084488/333

I don't think all Atheists are religious LOL. I never actually said that "Atheism" is a religion. I just hinted at it because it usually hooks the really 'religious' atheists.

As somebody said once before, some atheism is a direct response to Christianity, or Islam for example and such atheists take their atheism deadly seriously. You could argue that such atheists are crusaders in every sense of the word, and that they are probably more religious than the average catholic or Anglican who religiously goes to church every wedding or funeral.

When it comes down to it, an atheist doesn't believe in god(s). That's it. You really can't say anything more about atheists in general, apart from the fact that they are all human beings perhaps.

Atheists specifically do not reject God (in other words they really believe in 'God" but refuse to talk to him Cheesy

)

They do not "reject the silly fairytales" of religion either. If you have a person who doesn't believe in any Gods but they think that religions are important for controlling the masses, or that they instill a sense of morality, then that person is still an atheist.

I always struggled with the word 'Atheism'. An Atheist doesn't believe in god(s), so Atheism is the worldview that god(s) don't exist. It's not much of a world view is it?

I prefer not to designate myself as an atheist or a theist, because such terms are meaningless to me because gods are meaningless to me. I instead prefer to define myself in terms of my mode of thought. I believe in a naturalistic world with no supernatural influences.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Religion, Atheism and Agnosticism
Reply #7 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 8:51am

muso wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 8:39am:

I don't think all Atheists are religious LOL. I never actually said that "Atheism" is a religion. I just hinted at it because it usually hooks the really 'religious' atheists.

As somebody said once before, some atheism is a direct response to Christianity, or Islam for example and such atheists take their atheism deadly seriously. You could argue that such atheists are crusaders in every sense of the word, and that they are probably more religious than the average catholic or Anglican who religiously goes to church every wedding or funeral.

That some atheists are dogmatic or anti-theistic, doesn't make them religious, it makes them dogmatic or anti-theistic.

To claim that atheists are religious would be to broaden the definition of the term. But that isn't the objective of those god-believers who try to assert that atheism is a religion. What they intend to achieve is to deaden the "argument against god", by putting theists and atheists, by rhetorical slight-of-hand, on the same side.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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