Australian Politics Forum - More Public Money for Private Education

Cyberman Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 391	Re: More Public Money for Private Education Reply #30 - Jul 21^st, 2010 at 11:25pm You just need to take in asylum seekers. Leonora just managed to get 6 extra teachers and assorted aids for 50 illegal immigrant kids released to go to the local school. Amazing what you can get when you have a govt sucking up to a hot political issue
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Equitist

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NSW

Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #31 - Jul 21^st, 2010 at 11:57pm

Cyberman wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:37pm:

No, I said teachers go where the money is. You made the assertion.
Quote:

You are aware, aren't you, that private schools generally pay less than public schools!?

Now back your assertion. Or did you just assume because it suits your agenda?

Cyberman wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:52pm:

Bump for Thy.Meekest

LOL...that's definitely one of my more 'interesting' nicknames...

Apologies for missing your earlier post - I was away from my comfuser sorting kids out...

When a 'centre-right' person such as yourself makes a rhetorical statement like the one you made earlier, the implication is clear - and it remains incumbent upon you to back such assertions when challenged...

Facts are: I've previously researched the relevant info and I've been through similar arguments before with people at Yahoo - but Longy seems to forget that I've provided numerous links over the past year or so on this very subject...

Quite simply, he is wrong, on all of the points on which we disagree - but I am prepared to be corrected by either or both of you, should you be able to provide evidence contrary to my assertions...

For your own peace of mind, if not to seek to cut me down, I suggest that you conduct your own research - as I'd be curious to see what you can come up with to back up your flawed ASSUMPTIONS and assertions!

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Cyberman Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 391	Re: More Public Money for Private Education Reply #32 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 12:16am Thank you for your admittance of defeat
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longweekend58

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Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #33 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 9:37am

Equitist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:32pm:

Cyberman wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:22pm:

Show us your stats!

You are the one who made the assertion, so it is incumbent upon you to prove it!

Meantime, you should learn not to assume things just because they suit your agenda...

Hint: these days, where there are parallel public and private systems operating in the same 'market', the private sector rarely matches the wages and salaries of the highly-unionised public sector, except in the highest eschelons which (for obvious reasons) are not unionised)!

and the reason the best teachers want a private school gig is... lower wages??? yeah right. speaking as the parent of a private school teacher I can confidently say that you are totally wrong - as expected. private school teachers get slightly higher salaries but also better conditions and certianly superior schools in which to operate.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Equitist

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NSW

Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #34 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:04am

Cyberman wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 12:16am:

Thank you for your admittance of defeat

Nope, no reason for an admission from me on this - just giving you and Longy an opportunity, to try to back up your assumptions and then humbly back down...

If your assertions are based in fact, then you should be able to readily access same...

Like I said, I have gathered the relevant links and info on this already - but I shall give you guys some more time to provide evidence or back down...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Equitist

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Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #35 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:09am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 9:37am:

Equitist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:32pm:

Cyberman wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:22pm:

Show us your stats!

You are the one who made the assertion, so it is incumbent upon you to prove it!

Meantime, you should learn not to assume things just because they suit your agenda...

Hint: these days, where there are parallel public and private systems operating in the same 'market', the private sector rarely matches the wages and salaries of the highly-unionised public sector, except in the highest eschelons which (for obvious reasons) are not unionised)!

and the reason the best teachers want a private school gig is... lower wages??? yeah right. speaking as the parent of a private school teacher I can confidently say that you are totally wrong - as expected. private school teachers get slightly higher salaries but also better conditions and certianly superior schools in which to operate.

Aha! I see that you are already trying to weasel out of this, Longy - and I now call upon you to substantiate these latest assertions: "private school teachers get slightly higher salaries but also better conditions" - if you can!?

Oh, and whilst you are at it, kindly confirm the relative proportions of unionised v's non-unionised teachers in the private and public education sectors, ta!

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Cyberman Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 391	Re: More Public Money for Private Education Reply #36 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:10am I have already shown where you made the assertion and assumed something because it fits your agenda. Time to put your money where your mouth is Meekest. Failure to do so makes your assertion and assumption null and void
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Cyberman

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Posts: 391

Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #37 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:13am

Quote:

Oh, and whilst you are at it, kindly confirm the relative proportions of unionised v's non-unionised teachers in the private and public education sectors, ta!

Oh your a unionist.

Sorry I didn't pick that up. I will now expect you to not back any claim you have made and expect everything you say to be a lie.

That explains your tail-between-the-legs attitude

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buzzanddidj

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Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
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Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #38 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:15am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 6:00pm:

Equitist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 12:46pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 12:40pm:

[...] I can see its a shallow vote buying exercise aimed at the Upper middle to middle class.
I rather my tax dollars improve the public education than give me an extra tax cut.
As for the old mantra of taking the burden off public education it's a furphy.

Agreed, ditto!

We all know why you agree with that comment and it has nothing to do with the facts. with 2/3 of students in private schools the comment is an undeniable fact of massive proportions. but when your thinking is defined soley by ideology then you come up with crap like this.

MEDIA RELEASE

March 16, 2010 Embargoed 11:30 am (Canberra Time) 26/2010

Private school student numbers boom

Over the last ten years, the number of students in non-government schools rose eightfold compared to the number of students in government schools, according to findings released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).

The Australian Capital Territory had the highest proportion of non-government full-time students (43%) while Northern Territory had the lowest (26%).

Since 1999, the number of students in non-government schools rose by 208 500 students while the number of students in government schools rose by only 26,200 students.

Despite this, the majority of students in Australia still attend government schools with around two thirds of full-time students attending government schools in 2009

.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbyReleaseDate/130E6818E4A6A...

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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Verge Ex Member Australian Politics Gender:	Re: More Public Money for Private Education Reply #39 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:15am I just tried to do a serch for my own curiosity, and I cant find anywhere that has comparisions between private and public school wages, however I did notice that the private sector is still heavily unionised.
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Verge

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Australian Politics

Gender: male

Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #40 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:16am

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:15am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 6:00pm:

Equitist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 12:46pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 12:40pm:

[...] I can see its a shallow vote buying exercise aimed at the Upper middle to middle class.
I rather my tax dollars improve the public education than give me an extra tax cut.
As for the old mantra of taking the burden off public education it's a furphy.

Agreed, ditto!

We all know why you agree with that comment and it has nothing to do with the facts. with 2/3 of students in private schools the comment is an undeniable fact of massive proportions. but when your thinking is defined soley by ideology then you come up with crap like this.

MEDIA RELEASE

March 16, 2010 Embargoed 11:30 am (Canberra Time) 26/2010

Private school student numbers boom

Over the last ten years, the number of students in non-government schools rose eightfold compared to the number of students in government schools, according to findings released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).

The Australian Capital Territory had the highest proportion of non-government full-time students (43%) while Northern Territory had the lowest (26%).

Since 1999, the number of students in non-government schools rose by 208 500 students while the number of students in government schools rose by only 26,200 students.

Despite this, the majority of students in Australia still attend government schools with around two thirds of full-time students attending government schools in 2009

.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbyReleaseDate/130E6818E4A6A...

So doesnt those stats actually suggest that with 1/3 of kids in private schoosl, then they actually are taking the burden off public schools?

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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buzzanddidj

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Australian Politics

Posts: 14178
Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
Gender: male

Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #41 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:37am

Verge wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:16am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:15am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 6:00pm:

Equitist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 12:46pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 12:40pm:

[...] I can see its a shallow vote buying exercise aimed at the Upper middle to middle class.
I rather my tax dollars improve the public education than give me an extra tax cut.
As for the old mantra of taking the burden off public education it's a furphy.

Agreed, ditto!

We all know why you agree with that comment and it has nothing to do with the facts. with 2/3 of students in private schools the comment is an undeniable fact of massive proportions. but when your thinking is defined soley by ideology then you come up with crap like this.

MEDIA RELEASE

March 16, 2010 Embargoed 11:30 am (Canberra Time) 26/2010

Private school student numbers boom

Over the last ten years, the number of students in non-government schools rose eightfold compared to the number of students in government schools, according to findings released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).

The Australian Capital Territory had the highest proportion of non-government full-time students (43%) while Northern Territory had the lowest (26%).

Since 1999, the number of students in non-government schools rose by 208 500 students while the number of students in government schools rose by only 26,200 students.

Despite this, the majority of students in Australia still attend government schools with around two thirds of full-time students attending government schools in 2009

.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbyReleaseDate/130E6818E4A6A...

So doesnt those stats actually suggest that with 1/3 of kids in private schoosl, then they actually are taking the burden off public schools?

I posted the ABS figures to de-bunk the

BOGUS

claim made by longweekend

.

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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longweekend58

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Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #42 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:47am

Obviosuly I got my 2/3 around the wrong way but did you read in those stats that only 8 times as many are moving to private as to public schools? Does that not tell you something. in a market economy it is clearly obviousl that the VAST MAJORITY of parent are choosing the much more expensive but clearly superior private system.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: More Public Money for Private Education
Reply #43 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:49am

Equitist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:09am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 9:37am:

Equitist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:32pm:

Cyberman wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 10:22pm:

Show us your stats!

You are the one who made the assertion, so it is incumbent upon you to prove it!

Meantime, you should learn not to assume things just because they suit your agenda...

Hint: these days, where there are parallel public and private systems operating in the same 'market', the private sector rarely matches the wages and salaries of the highly-unionised public sector, except in the highest eschelons which (for obvious reasons) are not unionised)!

and the reason the best teachers want a private school gig is... lower wages??? yeah right. speaking as the parent of a private school teacher I can confidently say that you are totally wrong - as expected. private school teachers get slightly higher salaries but also better conditions and certianly superior schools in which to operate.

Aha! I see that you are already trying to weasel out of this, Longy - and I now call upon you to substantiate these latest assertions: "private school teachers get slightly higher salaries but also better conditions" - if you can!?

Oh, and whilst you are at it, kindly confirm the relative proportions of unionised v's non-unionised teachers in the private and public education sectors, ta!

What's there to prove? the teachers are flocking to the private sector and if you think they are throwing themsevles at private schools in pursuit of lower wages then you are deluding themselves. There are teacher awards so private schools CANNOT pay less than public anyhow, but they can pay more - and often do - something public schools cannot do.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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vegitamite Ex Member	Re: More Public Money for Private Education Reply #44 - Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 10:50am Why should struggling small businesses and people taxes pay for wealthy individual's children's Violin and Piano lessons? Why should people expect the government to pay for this. Why are many people not more concerned about the money going to better services and education quailty etc for all kids...
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