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Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future (Read 17206 times)
Hlysnan
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #30 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:51pm
 
Perhaps because I know "poor" people who are leeching off society. I also see a few with booze in one hand and a smoke in the other, chucking dirties and sitting outside Central station every morning.
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Equitist
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #31 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:54pm
 

Quote:
[...]

Conclusion

The new information from NATSEM draws attention to important dimensions of wealth inequality in Australia. Analysis of the disaggregated yet overlapping categories -- age, income, gender, occupation, industry and household composition -- shows that wealth inequality exists at a number of levels. A political-economic analysis that recognises the interconnections between political, social, cultural and economic factors is necessary to show how wealth inequalities are structured and reproduced.

Do these inequalities matter? For a society that has historically sought some degree of fairness in economic outcomes, issues of equity are always important. The superficial egalitarian ethos in Australian society sits awkwardly beside the entrenched wealth inequalities that exist in practice.

Economic inequality also creates social stresses. There is now mounting evidence linking inequality to ill health, crime, greater stresses on social services and lower levels of overall happiness in society.

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #32 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:55pm
 
Ahh an article by Frank Stilwel .. my Economics professor at Sydney Uni .. good times lol Tongue
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perceptions_now
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #33 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:55pm
 
Hlysnan wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:24pm:
I'm sure there are benefits to helping poor people, but I don't believe that it should be the government's responsibility anyway. If people like donating to poor Australians, there are plenty of charities to go to. No need to force everyone to pay up. Generally the wealthier people are, the more generous they become anyway.

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread, but what is SFA?



I'm not sure you really want to know?

However -
S = Sweet
A = All
And, I will leave the F, to your imagination!
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Equitist
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #34 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:57pm
 

Hlysnan wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:51pm:
Perhaps because I know "poor" people who are leeching off society. I also see a few with booze in one hand and a smoke in the other, chucking dirties and sitting outside Central station every morning.


I would suggest that you get of your superficial high horse and try to learn to separate symptoms from causes...
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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #35 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:08pm
 
Just read back  through this topic ...

1) As per usual .. my old Economics Professor Frank Stilwell has produced an informative paper 

2) Tax scales have been reproduced by the OP .. again very informative

What's the problem???
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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longweekend58
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #36 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:21pm
 
Equitist wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 10:11pm:
Hlysnan wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 9:57pm:
If you didn't realise, the tax-free threshold and lower tax brackets have become larger and moved to a lower rate. It's not only the wealthy who benefit. It includes everyone who can be bothered to work.

Also, even if taxes are becoming more regressive, it's a good thing. The current tax system is shockingly inequitable with almost half of some peoples' hard earned income going to dole bludgers.

And I don't see how income inequality is a bad thing, where living standards have improved for earners of all classes. Income inequality in relatively free economies usually correlates with strong growth. I think this is something we should be clinking glasses to.


LOL, Jeimi...clink all you want - but I point out that a token % tax break on an income of SFA = SFA!

Meantime, perhaps you should consider the long-term benefits of helping children in low income households to have a better education and a higher standard of living - since they could well be the ones calculating your toxic drug doses, driving your taxi, fixing your electrical wiring and rolling you over in bed to wipe your nose and backside...in your dotage...



your trouble is that it is NEVER enough. more welfare than ever before, tax cuts at the same rate as the high earners, more education, more opportunities and you still complain. standard of living is significantly higher than the 80s you long to see revisted and incomes have a very high REAL increase on then as well. the real problem is as long as ayone earsn more than anyone else then you will have un an assailable problem. your problem isnt equity - your problem is greed - yours.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #37 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:22pm
 
Personally, I reckon that the Howardian Era set some very bad precedents, in terms of pretending that some of its WEALTHfare, tax and pensions and other policies were designed to responsibly address those and other increasingly-daunting long-term socio-economic issues...

- Thy Equitist

Earlier, I promised to post some independent reports - so here's my first link, an international one: -

http://www.lisproject.org/publications/liswps/154.pdf

It is over a decade old, but it confirms my claim that income inequality in Australia rose significantly in the 1980's (and from an already high inequality base).

- Thy Equitist

Oh dear .. now who was in Federal office in the 80's?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #38 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:24pm
 
and in the meantime, to ask for the tenth time, SUPPORT YOUR case for higher income tax rates particularly this 60% rate for high earners in the absence of any economic or fiscal reason.

and if you arent will to justify your stupid beliefs please do us all a favour and stop repeating them.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #39 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:25pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
Personally, I reckon that the Howardian Era set some very bad precedents, in terms of pretending that some of its WEALTHfare, tax and pensions and other policies were designed to responsibly address those and other increasingly-daunting long-term socio-economic issues...

- Thy Equitist

Earlier, I promised to post some independent reports - so here's my first link, an international one: -

http://www.lisproject.org/publications/liswps/154.pdf

It is over a decade old, but it confirms my claim that income inequality in Australia rose significantly in the 1980's (and from an already high inequality base).

- Thy Equitist

Oh dear .. now who was in Federal office in the 80's?




the same people who maintained a 60% tax rate - the rate she is so in love with for reasons noone can understand and she is unwilling/unable to explain.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #40 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:26pm
 
It would be prudent for certain posters to take a deep breath and read what they've previously posted if they wish to preclude the risk of rambling incoherently.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #41 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:27pm
 
that would generally be a first.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #42 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:28pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:25pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
Personally, I reckon that the Howardian Era set some very bad precedents, in terms of pretending that some of its WEALTHfare, tax and pensions and other policies were designed to responsibly address those and other increasingly-daunting long-term socio-economic issues...

- Thy Equitist

Earlier, I promised to post some independent reports - so here's my first link, an international one: -

http://www.lisproject.org/publications/liswps/154.pdf

It is over a decade old, but it confirms my claim that income inequality in Australia rose significantly in the 1980's (and from an already high inequality base).

- Thy Equitist

Oh dear .. now who was in Federal office in the 80's?




the same people who maintained a 60% tax rate - the rate she is so in love with for reasons noone can understand and she is unwilling/unable to explain.



I'm all ears .. and eyes lmao Smiley

I do have a few comments to offer afterwards.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #43 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:33pm
 
They do say good things come to those who wait ....

I am sure the reply will be worth the wait lol Smiley
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Equitist
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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #44 - Jul 24th, 2010 at 11:38pm
 

Hmmnnn....you right whingers and/or good Xtians will love this one then...


http://www.catholicweekly.com.au/article.php?classID=1&subclassID=2&articleID=96...

Quote:
Report backs claims on wealth inequality
     
By MARILYN RODRIGUES

26 June, 2005

Research showing that the top 10 per cent of Australians hold half of the nation’s wealth has bolstered controversial claims by the St Vincent de Paul Society that inequality is growing at a rapid rate.

The society’s claim, based on latest figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, and its call for a national strategy to address structural causes of poverty were rejected by Senator Kay Patterson, the Minister for Family and Community Services, and by Prof Peter Saunders, from the Centre for Independent Studies.

But a report by the Melbourne Institute into how wealth is distributed across the country has found that 45 per cent of the wealth is held by the richest 10 per cent of the population, who have a net worth of almost $2 million each.

Five per cent of Australians hold 31 per cent of the country’s wealth.

The findings are based on property and business ownership, bank accounts, superannuation and equity investments and vehicle ownership.

Gary Marks, research associate with the institute, says he is surprised at the level of inequality in wealth.

But Dr John Falzon, national research and advocacy officer for Vinnies, is not.

“That report uses a different measure from our paper (The Reality of Income Inequality in Australia) but it does indicate the fact that income and education are the real determinants of wealth inequality, and that wealth inequality is skyrocketing,” he said. “It’s no surprise unfortunately.”

Vinnies has been involved in a public debate since its paper was published in May challenging Federal Government claims that people on low incomes are better off than they were several years ago.

The paper says that although lower incomes have risen slightly, almost a quarter of Australian households have an income of less than $400 a week while those on the highest incomes have enjoyed a disproportionately higher income rise.

“I think we disturb the comfort zones of some who would like to perpetuate a number of myths around the significant number of Australians being left out in all this prosperity that has been generated over the last 10-15 years,” said Dr Falzon.

If you continue to perpetuate the myths that people only miss out through their own fault or bad luck, you are then able to justify a withdrawal of government from its responsibility to provide essential services such as affordable transport, health and housing, education and childcare, by saying the market does a good job of providing them anyway.

“You also open the door to undermining the income of people in the lowest income groups, such as the elderly and people with disabilities.



With 37% of all Superannuation subsidies going to the top 5% earners (i.e. massive pre-paid pensions for those who would never have been entitled to the Age Pension in any event), there can be no doubt that inequality got much worse since...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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