Australian Politics Forum - Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future

Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #75 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:11pm

BobH wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 4:39pm:

Have you heard the Liberal Democratic Party's tax reform policy? It's called 30/30. It's basically a negative income tax (flat tax supplemented by a sliding-scale of government payments). So in essence it is still a progressive tax.

There's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. You pay a flat rate of 30% on your income above $30,000. If you earn under $30,000, you receive a payment from the government depending on how much under $30,000 you earn. If you earn nothing, you receive 30% of $30,000, which is $9000. But if you earn $10,000 for example, you would receive 30% of $20,000 (because you earn $20,000 less than the threshold), which is $6000. So that's $16,000 at year's end, as you aren't taxed at all on your actual income because it's under the threshold.

I think it's a great tax system because there's no disincentive for earning more. You're tax rate doesn't go up even if you earn a million dollars a year. But that doesn't shift the burden of taxation onto low-income earners because there's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. And if you earn under $30,000 you'll get at least some government assistance. The worse off you are, the more government assistance you will receive.

Yes Bill, I have heard of it (amongst other bizarre things that the LDP euphemistically call 'Competitive Federalism' policies)...

IM(not-so)HO, your agenda amounts to thinly-veiled fascism-cum-anarchy - which would result in even more extreme polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity and power than traditional unbridled corporativism!

It is founded in inherently short-sighted monetary-cum-egocentric and anti-social dogma - and my gut feeling is that it would destroy all socio-economic order and promote mass environmental destruction - and ultimately result in premature Darwin Awards all round!

Kindly go back to your gated 'community', where self-selected individuals of your ilk belong - and continue to self-flagellate ad nauseum over your infinite self-importance - to decay in amoral isolation...

Oh, and enjoy your Darwin Award - but I'll pass, ta!

Cheers

Nem

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hawil Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1345	Re: Nonsense Reply #76 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:39pm White Dove what do call nonsense? Pleas explain.
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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #77 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:41pm

The LDP 'Principles'

Quote:

The Liberal Democratic Party stands for greater freedom, smaller government and personal responsibility.

The LDP stands for the following principles
Economic Principles

* Free markets and freedom of choice
* Low tax, limited public spending and minimal regulation
* Widespread ownership of private property

Social Principles

* Civil society and volunteerism
* Civil liberties and individual freedom
* Individual liberty and personal responsibility under the rule of law

Government Principles

* Constitutional liberal democracy
* Ethical and impartial government under the rule of law
* Devolution of power including decentralised government and competitive federalism

International Principles

* Free trade in goods, services and capital
* Free trade in ideas and culture
* Freedom and human rights

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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #78 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:49pm

Then there's the 'Policies' - where the devil definitely lies in detail...

Quote:

LDP Policies

* Assisted suicide (Voluntary euthanasia)
* Civil liberties and individual freedom
* Competitive federalism
* Democracy
* Deregulate and Privatise
* Energy
* Environment
* Firearms
* Free trade
* Global warming
* Health
* Immigration
* Labour market regulation
* Lifestyle choices
* Motorcycles
* Nuclear power
* Property rights
* School education
* Smoking
* Taxation
* Traffic laws
* Victimless crimes
* Welfare

Assisted Suicide (Voluntary Euthanasia)

The LDP is committed to enacting legislation to allow all adult Australians of sound mind the right to assisted suicide provided there are appropriate safety mechanisms to ensure consent is freely and rationally given.

It also supports the free speech right to provide those who may wish to end their lives the information they require to do so.

.. read more

Civil Liberties and Individual Freedom

The LDP supports individuals' ownership of themselves and their right to pursue their own lifestyles, make their own decisions and engage in their own hobbies and interests as long as they do not directly harm other people or their property.

However, with freedom comes responsibility. The LDP believes that individuals should also take responsibility for their own decisions in life.

.. read more

Competitive Federalism

The LDP supports competitive federalism as it was intended by the founders of the constitution.

Where possible, government activities should be decentralised to the State level to allow the benefits of governmental competition, policy experimentation and individual choice. This will also allow the removal of bureaucratic duplication of federal and state agencies.

Democracy

The LDP believes in a constitutional democracy.

The LDP supports voluntary voting, citizens initiated referendums, fixed parliamentary terms, the option of recall elections, constitutional protection of private property and sunset clauses on legislation. These reforms represent a tangible step forward in promoting both liberty and democracy in Australia.

.. read more

Deregulate and Privatise

The LDP supports the privatisation policies of ALP and Coalition governments over the past 20 years. We believe this process should continue and support an immediate end to state and federal ownership of the ABC, SBS, Australia Post, Medibank Private, electricity generation corporations, and bus, ferry and rail services.

The LDP also supports a new round of regulation reforms modelled on the National Competition Council, focused on assessing all regulations for their impacts on productivity and economic welfare.

.. read more

Energy

The LDP does not believe in either subsidising or unfairly taxing any particular source of energy. Energy is a vital element of any economy and the LDP recognises the valuable contribution the energy sector (and especially coal) makes to the Australian economy.

The LDP would not restrict nuclear energy or uranium mining in Australia.

.. read more

Environment

The LDP values the natural environment within the context of a prosperous society that provides equal protection under the law and is based on respect for individual freedom, personal responsibility, small government and the defence of private property.

We recognise that societies in which government is smaller rather than bigger have produced better environmental quality and a better and fairer outcome for all members of society, including the poor.

.. read more

Firearms

The LDP supports the right to own firearms for sport, hunting, collecting and self defence.

.. read more

Free Trade

The LDP supports the free international trade in goods, services and capital. We are committed to achieve the APEC goals of complete free trade by 2010.

.. read more

Global Warming

The LDP acknowledges that there is scientific evidence to suggest a trend towards global warming and the possibility that humans may be partly responsible. However, it does not consider governments have the competence to address the problem and looks to market responses instead.

.. read more

Health

The LDP proposes to wrest back from government and return to consumers control of individual health care choices. It seeks to rescue people from a situation in which they are dependent on decisions by government to one in which they are able to make decisions for themselves and to provide for themselves.

By cutting back the proportion of health care funded directly by government and re-aligning incentives, enormous savings can be made by reducing the waste and excessive costs of a public system. At the same time, relaxation of regulatory controls will allow new organisations providing health services to emerge that will help to limit costs while improving quality.

.. read more

Immigration

The LDP supports immigration and believes immigrants generally provide a net social and economic benefit to Australia. It supports expanding opportunities to live and work in Australia while carefully guarding opportunities to receive welfare or become full citizens.

The LDP also supports additional “free immigration agreements” with appropriate countries (Japan, Singapore, Canada, Sweden, etc) similar to the current agreement with New Zealand...

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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #79 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:55pm

Quote:

Immigration

The LDP supports immigration and believes immigrants generally provide a net social and economic benefit to Australia. It supports expanding opportunities to live and work in Australia while carefully guarding opportunities to receive welfare or become full citizens.

The LDP also supports additional “free immigration agreements” with appropriate countries (Japan, Singapore, Canada, Sweden, etc) similar to the current agreement with New Zealand and along the same lines as “free trade agreements” .

.. read more

Labour Market Regulation

The LDP supports a free market in labour and opposes excessive labour market regulation and the minimum wage. The LDP would replace the minimum wage with a negative income tax to support low-income earners. Details are provided in the Welfare policy.

Lifestyle Choices

Adults must be free to make their own decisions without interference by the government or requiring its approval. Adults are not like children and do not need anyone to make their choices for them. They can choose where to live, which job to take, where to go on holiday and what to do with their money, and live with the consequences. Similarly, they can choose their particular lifestyle including such things as how to live, whether to live alone or with others and who to live with.

.. read more

Motorcycles

The LDP believes those who choose to use motorcycles and scooters should not be discouraged by government policies.

The use of motorcycles and scooters is a matter of individual choice. So long as nobody else is likely to be harmed, it is not acceptable for the government to interfere in it.

.. read more

Nuclear Power

There is a longstanding perception that nuclear power plants are expensive and dangerous with the potential for accidents and leaks outweighing the potential benefits they could provide. There are also concerns about what to do with nuclear waste products such as spent fuel rods.

Whether or not these concerns were once valid, they are certainly not valid now. Advances in the design of nuclear power plants mean that they are now safe and produce quite small quantities of waste. Moreover, waste can now be safely stored indefinitely.

.. read more

Property Rights

The LDP believes that people have the right to own and control private property and that the only legitimate way to deal with each other is through voluntary exchange. It believes that maintaining the safety and security of the Australian people and their property must be the government’s first priority.

The LDP supports a shift in security resources away from victimless crimes (seatbelts, bicycle helmets, drugs) and towards preventing physical and property crimes such as assault, rape and theft.

.. read more

School Education

The LDP opposes the state-federal jurisdictional duplication in education policy and believes that school funding and regulation should be decentralised and devolved to the state level.

At the state level the LDP supports the introduction of school vouchers to allow greater competition between schools and greater parental choice.

.. read more

Smoking

It is everyone's right to control the property they own, and everyone's right to determine the standards of behaviour on their own property.

Just as a private individual has the right to dictate whether visitors or guests may smoke in their lounge-room or their car, so too the owner of a bar or restaurant should have the right to determine whether smoking should or should not be permitted on their premises.

.. read more

Taxation

The LDP believes we need significant cuts in income tax. It supports the 30/30 tax system where nobody pays income tax on their first $30,000 and there is a flat 30% income tax on income above $30,000. The LDP would also bring all taxes into line so that the same tax applied on all income - whether wages, capital gain, company profits or fringe benefits.

.. read more

Traffic Laws

The LDP believes traffic laws should strike a better balance between safety and the need for efficient travel over long distances. The balance is currently determined by public servants, whereas it should be a matter for the community.

.. read more

Victimless Crimes

The LDP does not generally support the criminalisation of victimless crimes. Wherever possible it will seek to reduce the intrusion of government into these areas.

.. read more

Welfare

Economic growth has led to all Australians (including the poor) getting richer and more money going to charity. Consequently there is less and less need for our large and expensive welfare system. The LDP supports the replacement of all current welfare programs with a comprehensive negative income tax that provides a basic standard of living and some assistance to the working poor.

.. read more

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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #80 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:59pm

Quote:

Welfare

LDP Principles

The LDP supports a society that fosters individual responsibility and civic institutions in preference to government funded welfare.

People who are healthy and capable should as far as possible provide for their own material needs through personal effort, thrift and financial independence. Where people are genuinely unable to provide for themselves they should be supported primarily through social institutions such as family, friends, their local community, religious groups and private charities.

Australians already demonstrate an enormous level of goodwill towards those in need through numerous voluntary organisations including institutions such as the volunteer bush fire services and surf life saving clubs.

Over successive generations the role of government welfare has shifted from being an ancillary service that supplements and supports community and family-based efforts, to full scale intervention that in many instances completely displaces civil society. In the process it has created many perverse incentives and dependencies that in some instances exacerbate problems rather than provide assistance.

There are currently 700,000 Australians of working age on the disability support pension. This number does not include those on unemployment benefits or over the age of 65. As a proportion of the working age population, the percentage of people receiving the disability support pension has more than doubled in the last 25 years in spite of improvements to work safety and general health trends.

Respected aboriginal leader Noel Pearson has complained that welfare dependency has in fact been destructive of aboriginal culture, society and self respect. Welfare handed out by government, without obligation from the recipients, was described as sit down money.

The criticisms of welfare mentality in the Aboriginal community ring true of the wider community. What started out as a system for assisting people in need has mutated into a system that prepares people for nothing except welfare dependency. The welfare system has grown into a self serving industry with whole government departments, consultants, lobbyists and companies all depending on large numbers of “clients” to justify their existence.

In more recent times political expediency has seen the expansion of so called middle class welfare through initiatives such as Family Tax Benefits and the baby bonus. In response to an expanding welfare budget, governments have at the same time found it necessary to means-test such benefits and phase them out as incomes rise.

When combined with the income tax system, effective marginal tax rates (EMTR) now commonly exceed 50% and in many instances reach 75% (even before considering other taxes like GST). Some families that take the initiative to earn an extra dollar will find that they get to keep just 25 cents or less. Whilst this problem has received lip-service recognition from the major political parties there has been decidedly little in the way of action to fix the problem.

Specific Policies

Under the LDP 30/30 tax policy, for every dollar an individual earns over $30,000 they pay 30 cents in income tax and for every dollar they earn under $30,000 they receive a low income subsidy of 30 cents. Hence the LDP tax policy forms the core of the approach to government funded welfare support. What follows are the supplementary reform details specific to current welfare recipients.

* Disability Support Pension

The existing disability support pension would be replaced with the general low income subsidy as outlined in the 30/30 tax policy. The LDP would use any savings from this simplification to provide grants to better fund existing private charities working in the area of disability support.

* Unemployment benefits

Existing unemployment benefits would be replacing with the general low income subsidy as outlined in the 30/30 tax policy. This subsidy would end the current process of harassing the unemployed. At the same time the LDP would increase the incentive for employers to create jobs by eliminating the minimum wage and allowing the labour market to operate freely. Combined, these measures would allow some wages to fall in areas of high unemployment whilst protecting the actual income level of workers.

* Family Benefits.

The existing Family Tax Benefits part-A and part-B as well as the Child Care Tax Rebate and Baby Bonus would be replaced. However the LDP tax policy would recognise the additional cost of raising children with an increased tax free threshold of $6,000 per child for the nominated parent (usually the primary income earner) and a corresponding increase in the low income subsidy for families.

* Aged Pension

The aged would be eligible for the low income subsidy along with everyone else. Those that prefer to continue working will not be confronted by disincentives from...

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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #81 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 10:01pm

Quote:

* Aged Pension

The aged would be eligible for the low income subsidy along with everyone else. Those that prefer to continue working will not be confronted by disincentives from the taxation system.

For those of pension age with no income apart from the low income subsidy, the low income subsidy will be topped up to the current pension level. However, in recognition of the introduction of compulsory superannuation in 1992 and of the increasing health and physical capability of older Australians, eligibility for this would be raised over time. For those born prior to 1945 there would be no change in the eligibility age. For each year of birth after 1945 the pension eligibility age would rise by one year. Thus, for example, somebody born in 1950 would be eligible for the top up when they turn 70.

For any individuals that suffer hardship, the LDP would support tailored assistance delivered by private charities and state governments in preference to blanket policies delivered by the Commonwealth..

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BobH

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #82 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 11:42pm

Equitist wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:11pm:

BobH wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 4:39pm:

Have you heard the Liberal Democratic Party's tax reform policy? It's called 30/30. It's basically a negative income tax (flat tax supplemented by a sliding-scale of government payments). So in essence it is still a progressive tax.

There's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. You pay a flat rate of 30% on your income above $30,000. If you earn under $30,000, you receive a payment from the government depending on how much under $30,000 you earn. If you earn nothing, you receive 30% of $30,000, which is $9000. But if you earn $10,000 for example, you would receive 30% of $20,000 (because you earn $20,000 less than the threshold), which is $6000. So that's $16,000 at year's end, as you aren't taxed at all on your actual income because it's under the threshold.

I think it's a great tax system because there's no disincentive for earning more. You're tax rate doesn't go up even if you earn a million dollars a year. But that doesn't shift the burden of taxation onto low-income earners because there's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. And if you earn under $30,000 you'll get at least some government assistance. The worse off you are, the more government assistance you will receive.

Yes Bill, I have heard of it (amongst other bizarre things that the LDP euphemistically call 'Competitive Federalism' policies)...

IM(not-so)HO, your agenda amounts to thinly-veiled fascism-cum-anarchy - which would result in even more extreme polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity and power than traditional unbridled corporativism!

It is founded in inherently short-sighted monetary-cum-egocentric and anti-social dogma - and my gut feeling is that it would destroy all socio-economic order and promote mass environmental destruction - and ultimately result in premature Darwin Awards all round!

Kindly go back to your gated 'community', where self-selected individuals of your ilk belong - and continue to self-flagellate ad nauseum over your infinite self-importance - to decay in amoral isolation...

Oh, and enjoy your Darwin Award - but I'll pass, ta!

Cheers

Nem

Well first-of-all, thank you for copy-pasting the LDP's policies here. I wasn't going to go to all that trouble, but I'm glad someone did.

I must say it's a little hard to decipher your muddle of quasi-intellectualisms. But I guess I get the general gist of what you're saying. You think a flat tax, even when supplemented by a sliding-scale of government payments to the unemployed and low income earners, would result in greater economic disparity. I suppose you'd rather a more progressive tax (I assume because you call the current tax system to regressive in your OP). But in my estimation, progressive tax rates end up squeezing the middle class, which is what causes the disparity between low-income earners and high-income earners. Because when you put higher rates on income over a certain amount, there's an incentive for high-income earners to hide their assets over that amount in investments overseas. But the common man can't as easily do that so the tax burden gets shifted to him.

And then there's the part where you randomly throw in "mass environmental destruction". I don't know if I even want to know the logic behind that one, if it's as disjointed as your original response to me. If you want to talk environmentalism, then you can't take the tax policy on its own. You have to put in the context of other Liberal Democratic policies. I think what you want to look at is point #3 under the economic policies you copy-pasted. Obviously private land is some of the most well looked after and preserved. There is an economic incentive for private property owners to look after their own property. Especially if they use that property for further economic gain. E.g. if they own a tree farm or something. The incentive is to keep breeding trees so you can keep making money. Private property rights are key to protecting the environment.

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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #83 - Jul 29^th, 2010 at 11:56pm

BobH wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 11:42pm:

Equitist wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:11pm:

BobH wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 4:39pm:

Have you heard the Liberal Democratic Party's tax reform policy? It's called 30/30. It's basically a negative income tax (flat tax supplemented by a sliding-scale of government payments). So in essence it is still a progressive tax.

There's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. You pay a flat rate of 30% on your income above $30,000. If you earn under $30,000, you receive a payment from the government depending on how much under $30,000 you earn. If you earn nothing, you receive 30% of $30,000, which is $9000. But if you earn $10,000 for example, you would receive 30% of $20,000 (because you earn $20,000 less than the threshold), which is $6000. So that's $16,000 at year's end, as you aren't taxed at all on your actual income because it's under the threshold.

I think it's a great tax system because there's no disincentive for earning more. You're tax rate doesn't go up even if you earn a million dollars a year. But that doesn't shift the burden of taxation onto low-income earners because there's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. And if you earn under $30,000 you'll get at least some government assistance. The worse off you are, the more government assistance you will receive.

Yes Bill, I have heard of it (amongst other bizarre things that the LDP euphemistically call 'Competitive Federalism' policies)...

IM(not-so)HO, your agenda amounts to thinly-veiled fascism-cum-anarchy - which would result in even more extreme polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity and power than traditional unbridled corporativism!

It is founded in inherently short-sighted monetary-cum-egocentric and anti-social dogma - and my gut feeling is that it would destroy all socio-economic order and promote mass environmental destruction - and ultimately result in premature Darwin Awards all round!

Kindly go back to your gated 'community', where self-selected individuals of your ilk belong - and continue to self-flagellate ad nauseum over your infinite self-importance - to decay in amoral isolation...

Oh, and enjoy your Darwin Award - but I'll pass, ta!

Cheers

Nem

Well first-of-all, thank you for copy-pasting the LDP's policies here. I wasn't going to go to all that trouble, but I'm glad someone did.

I must say it's a little hard to decipher your muddle of quasi-intellectualisms. But I guess I get the general gist of what you're saying. You think a flat tax, even when supplemented by a sliding-scale of government payments to the unemployed and low income earners, would result in greater economic disparity. I suppose you'd rather a more progressive tax (I assume because you call the current tax system to regressive in your OP). But in my estimation, progressive tax rates end up squeezing the middle class, which is what causes the disparity between low-income earners and high-income earners. Because when you put higher rates on income over a certain amount, there's an incentive for high-income earners to hide their assets over that amount in investments overseas. But the common man can't as easily do that so the tax burden gets shifted to him.

And then there's the part where you randomly throw in "mass environmental destruction". I don't know if I even want to know the logic behind that one, if it's as disjointed as your original response to me. If you want to talk environmentalism, then you can't take the tax policy on its own. You have to put in the context of other Liberal Democratic policies. I think what you want to look at is point #3 under the economic policies you copy-pasted. Obviously private land is some of the most well looked after and preserved. There is an economic incentive for private property owners to look after their own property. Especially if they use that property for further economic gain. E.g. if they own a tree farm or something. The incentive is to keep breeding trees so you can keep making money. Private property rights are key to protecting the environment.

Actually, Bob, methinks we may have crossed political swords in another forum - hence my above comments are somewhat abridged...

Suffice to say that my concluded opinion is that: the LDP's exclusive individualistic and money-obsessed demographic is gravely out of touch with human needs and nature - and terminally unable to appreciate the fragiliity and intrinsic value of the dynamic and life-giving natural systems upon which humans necessarily rely...

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BobH

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #84 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:00am

Well I am active on a few forums around the place so maybe we have discussed this before. But it's very apparent to me that you are on such a difference wavelength to me. I'm not in the business of basing public policy on human nature and social theories. I don't believe that's the way to set public policy. I'm sorry but the early 20th century progressives you became the Bolsheviks and the Communists talked about social studies and human nature. I prefer to base public policy on freedom and what gives the individual maximum freedom. I actually detest the idea that you need to study humanity and formulate a social-economic policy on that. It's just seems very anti-life and anti-liberty to me. Sorry.

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Equitist

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #85 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:18am

BobH wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:00am:

Well I am active on a few forums around the place so maybe we have discussed this before. But it's very apparent to me that you are on such a difference wavelength to me. I'm not in the business of basing public policy on human nature and social theories. I don't believe that's the way to set public policy. I'm sorry but the early 20th century progressives you became the Bolsheviks and the Communists talked about social studies and human nature. I prefer to base public policy on freedom and what gives the individual maximum freedom. I actually detest the idea that you need to study humanity and formulate a social-economic policy on that. It's just seems very anti-life and anti-liberty to me. Sorry.

So, why the pretense of being concerned about society at all, when clearly you believe in individualism, money, property, markets and competition above all else!?

Like I said, those of your egocentric ilk are unwittingly aiming for a Darwin Award - and the sooner the better as far as I am concerned!

Meantime, I suggest that you set up your gun-filled gated 'community' on some isolated island, where you can enact 'public (i.e. not social) policy' to suit dehumanised units of economic production...

Where economic units can fight for life and compete for money, land and supremacy - and be free to enslave each other and trade your moral vacuums amongst yourselves - before wantonly-consuming your individual selves into cannibalism, decay and oblivion...

Adios!

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« Last Edit: Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:35am by Equitist »

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hawil Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1345	Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future Reply #86 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 6:08pm Jeimi; do you think it is the governments job to hand out tax-free super to the over sixties, which often exceeds %100,000 per annum
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freediver

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Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #87 - Jul 31^st, 2010 at 7:16pm

Equitist wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 9:11pm:

BobH wrote on Jul 29^th, 2010 at 4:39pm:

Have you heard the Liberal Democratic Party's tax reform policy? It's called 30/30. It's basically a negative income tax (flat tax supplemented by a sliding-scale of government payments). So in essence it is still a progressive tax.

There's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. You pay a flat rate of 30% on your income above $30,000. If you earn under $30,000, you receive a payment from the government depending on how much under $30,000 you earn. If you earn nothing, you receive 30% of $30,000, which is $9000. But if you earn $10,000 for example, you would receive 30% of $20,000 (because you earn $20,000 less than the threshold), which is $6000. So that's $16,000 at year's end, as you aren't taxed at all on your actual income because it's under the threshold.

I think it's a great tax system because there's no disincentive for earning more. You're tax rate doesn't go up even if you earn a million dollars a year. But that doesn't shift the burden of taxation onto low-income earners because there's a tax-free threshold of $30,000. And if you earn under $30,000 you'll get at least some government assistance. The worse off you are, the more government assistance you will receive.

Yes Bill, I have heard of it (amongst other bizarre things that the LDP euphemistically call 'Competitive Federalism' policies)...

IM(not-so)HO, your agenda amounts to thinly-veiled fascism-cum-anarchy - which would result in even more extreme polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity and power than traditional unbridled corporativism!

It is founded in inherently short-sighted monetary-cum-egocentric and anti-social dogma - and my gut feeling is that it would destroy all socio-economic order and promote mass environmental destruction - and ultimately result in premature Darwin Awards all round!

Kindly go back to your gated 'community', where self-selected individuals of your ilk belong - and continue to self-flagellate ad nauseum over your infinite self-importance - to decay in amoral isolation...

Oh, and enjoy your Darwin Award - but I'll pass, ta!

Cheers

Nem

It's just a tax reform. Why the drama?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future Reply #88 - Jul 31^st, 2010 at 11:43pm freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2010 at 7:16pm: It's just a tax reform. Why the drama? LOL...if only the LDP were only about tax reform - the tentacles of their insidious socio-economic and environmental agendas spread far above, below and beyond taxation...
Back to top	Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer! IP Logged

BobH

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Posts: 174

Re: Progressive Taxation: Back to the Future
Reply #89 - Aug 1^st, 2010 at 12:12am

Equitist wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:18am:

So, why the pretense of being concerned about society at all

because it is my opinion that clearly
Equitist wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:18am:

individualism, money, property, markets and competition

have a positive effect on society.

Successful societies always rely on individuals cooperating together voluntarily (trade) rather than as a forced collective, governments respecting and enforcing private property rights, and a free and competitive market.

Freedom has been the greatest benefit to society and to the people of that society.

By the way, our only agenda is to promote freedom. And we want to protect the environment. Read our environmental policies.

What's your beef with the Liberal Democrats? We are just a relatively new, small party. How could you possibly hate us that much when we don't yet have any influence in government? We are still just trying to get our name out. The media doesn't even recognise us much. I don't understand how we could pose such a threat that you feel the need to be so dramatic.

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« Last Edit: Aug 1^st, 2010 at 12:17am by BobH »

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