Australian Politics Forum - Evolution is not a scientific theory

aikmann4 Gold Member Offline Posts: 2093 canberra	Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory Reply #90 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 10:41pm Are you referring to selective government schools, Mantra?
Back to top	IP Logged

mantra

Gold Member

Offline

ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #91 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:46am

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 10:21pm:

Quote:

Overall - government schools have always outperformed elite schools academically.

Did you just make that up?

No FD - of course I didn't, but I should have added low socio economic areas might not have been included.

Quote:

6 April 2005

A study released today by Monash University researchers Ian Dobson and Eric Skuja has found students from public schools outperform those from private schools when they reach university.

Mr Dobson said a survey of 12,500 first year Monash University students revealed public school students who left Year 12 with lower marks than their private school rivals overtook them academically at university.

"Once on a level playing field, students from non-selective government schools tend to do much better," he said.

http://www.monashuniversity.com/news/newsline/story.php?story_id=350

and

Quote:

For example Geelong Grammar's Toorak campus in Victoria, which charges nearly $30,000-a-year in Year 12 fees and was once attended by Prince Charles, performed substantially below the average of similar Year 3 schools in spelling.

It was also below the average of similar schools in reading, grammar and numeracy.

A comparison with other similar schools claims Year 3 students results at Geelong Grammar were "substantially below" the performance of similar public schools at Camberwell Primary in Melbourne, Castle Cove Primary in NSW, Epping North Public School in Sydney and Stirling East Public School in Adelaide.

By comparison, students at the James Ruse Agricultural High School in Sydney, a selective public school for the "gifted" performed substantially above the average of similar schools and all schools in Australia across all measures.

In WA, girls at the Presbyterian Ladies College at Peppermint Grove, where fees can top $18,000-a-year, were below the average of similar schools in Year 5 reading, spelling and grammar and substantially below average in Year 5 and Year 7 numeracy.

At the Cranbrook School in NSW, where media heir James Packer once attended, students were below the average of similar schools in Year 9 results for reading, writing, spelling and grammar. However they were substantially above the average across all schools in Australia.

In Adelaide, students attending the prestigious Prince Alfred College, which educated cricketing greats the Chappell brothers, Year 3 and Year 5 results were below the average of similar schools in reading.

Year 5 test results were also below the average of similar schools in writing, spelling, grammar and punctuation.

At St Peters College boys school in Adelaide, which boasts of "three Nobel laureates, forty one Rhodes scholars and eight state premiers", results were below the average of similar schools in writing, spelling and grammar for Year 3 NAPLAN results.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/public-schools-in-wealthy-areas-outperf...

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #92 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 10:38am

mantra wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 7:53pm:

Parents should be responsible for disciplining their kids. You pay for others to mould your kids when you send them to a private school.

Public schools aren't as slack as you're inferring Jai. Overall - government schools have always outperformed elite schools academically. Although public school kids might not have been taught the same social skills - that doesn't mean private is best.

Some of the most devious, psychopathic criminals have been brought up in the private system.

Probably the religious influence. Did you ever see Dead Poets Society?

I disagree with your comments on Public Schools outperforming private schools though.

Some strange comments in that last article. Did you know that 50% of schools in Western Australia are below average ? Grin

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

It_is_the_Darkness

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4000
in a ReTardis
Gender: male

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #93 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 11:30am

I'm not saying Private is better/worse than Public,
no wait,
its a no-win situation as they are both good and bad from one another for different reasons.

I think in Public you have Bullying from a lower socio-economic background, whereas in Private you have Bullying from a higher socio-economic background.

My sister excelled in the Public system and went on to becoming Dux at Uni.
There are pros and cons for both systems.
I found that for a very long time neither catered to the 'Clever' Child (ironic in the so-called Clever Country) and thus why a lot of boys dropped out at year 10.
Sure there were indeed 'drop-outs', but the Clever boys, who went onto Trades etc, found that Years 11 & 12 were only for kids wanting to pursue an Academic Career and into Uni.
Only recently has the Education system recognised the needs of Clever kids with such projects as 'Get Skilled'.
I'm amazed when I did a SignCraft course as a MAS, how many youngsters thought that ny going to TAFE - they were social losers!
They didn't understand that they were 'clever'.
In fact the TAFE art course was far superior than Fine and Graphic Art course that the Universities provided.
University is good, but there needs to be other Educational establishments to cater to other qualities of kids.

Back to top

SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48816
At my desk.

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #94 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 7:41pm

mantra wrote on Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:46am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 10:21pm:

Quote:

Overall - government schools have always outperformed elite schools academically.

Did you just make that up?

No FD - of course I didn't, but I should have added low socio economic areas might not have been included.

Quote:

6 April 2005

A study released today by Monash University researchers Ian Dobson and Eric Skuja has found students from public schools outperform those from private schools when they reach university.

Mr Dobson said a survey of 12,500 first year Monash University students revealed public school students who left Year 12 with lower marks than their private school rivals overtook them academically at university.

"Once on a level playing field, students from non-selective government schools tend to do much better," he said.

http://www.monashuniversity.com/news/newsline/story.php?story_id=350

and

Quote:

For example Geelong Grammar's Toorak campus in Victoria, which charges nearly $30,000-a-year in Year 12 fees and was once attended by Prince Charles, performed substantially below the average of similar Year 3 schools in spelling.

It was also below the average of similar schools in reading, grammar and numeracy.

A comparison with other similar schools claims Year 3 students results at Geelong Grammar were "substantially below" the performance of similar public schools at Camberwell Primary in Melbourne, Castle Cove Primary in NSW, Epping North Public School in Sydney and Stirling East Public School in Adelaide.

By comparison, students at the James Ruse Agricultural High School in Sydney, a selective public school for the "gifted" performed substantially above the average of similar schools and all schools in Australia across all measures.

In WA, girls at the Presbyterian Ladies College at Peppermint Grove, where fees can top $18,000-a-year, were below the average of similar schools in Year 5 reading, spelling and grammar and substantially below average in Year 5 and Year 7 numeracy.

At the Cranbrook School in NSW, where media heir James Packer once attended, students were below the average of similar schools in Year 9 results for reading, writing, spelling and grammar. However they were substantially above the average across all schools in Australia.

In Adelaide, students attending the prestigious Prince Alfred College, which educated cricketing greats the Chappell brothers, Year 3 and Year 5 results were below the average of similar schools in reading.

Year 5 test results were also below the average of similar schools in writing, spelling, grammar and punctuation.

At St Peters College boys school in Adelaide, which boasts of "three Nobel laureates, forty one Rhodes scholars and eight state premiers", results were below the average of similar schools in writing, spelling and grammar for Year 3 NAPLAN results.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/public-schools-in-wealthy-areas-outperf...

Mantra, that just demonstrates that children in private schools do better academically than they would in public schools.

It is not showing that private schools somehow hold students back once they hit university, but that public high schools hold students back while they are in public highschools, but they make up some of the gap at uni.

For example, this:

Quote:

"Once on a level playing field, students from non-selective government schools tend to do much better," he said.

is not saying they do better than private school students in general, but that they do comparitively better in uni than they themselves did in high school.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

aikmann4 Gold Member Offline Posts: 2093 canberra	Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory Reply #95 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:04pm Is that more to do with the fact that the dumb public school attendees just get weeded out before they pass on to university? Of course public school attendees would do better in universities than in their public schools.. you've cut out basically 3/4th of them.
Back to top	IP Logged

It_is_the_Darkness Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4000 in a ReTardis Gender:	Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory Reply #96 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:35pm Not changing the subject too much. But does anyone know if ADD/ADHD is just a Public School thing or even just a Co-Educational thing??
Back to top	SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO. IP Logged

Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory Reply #97 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:50pm It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:35pm: Not changing the subject too much. But does anyone know if ADD/ADHD is just a Public School thing or even just a Co-Educational thing?? Didn't the most prominent ADHD-afflicted individual in Oz (Tony Abbott) go to a Catholic school!?
Back to top	Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer! IP Logged

It_is_the_Darkness Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4000 in a ReTardis Gender:	Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory Reply #98 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 9:08pm Well then, it blows my Theory that I was labelled ADD (back then) because I kept looking at the girls spreading their legs on the other side of the classroom, out of the water.
Back to top	SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO. IP Logged

MrLegoiNation

New Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1
Gender: male

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #99 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

What do you mean "evolution should not be taught in high-schools"? Evolutions is the most complete explanation of how we as humans came to be. On top of that, the title 'Theory of Evolution' means today that Charles Darwin's original theory is now an 'over theory' of sorts, it's Big Daddy of all evolutionary science. Theories like Natural Selection came from Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution. Also evolution IS a theory you can test. If you look at the physiology of a Whale, you can see arm and shoulder bones similar to those in a land mammal, even though the Whale is deep sea creature... and mammal. See, simple observable proof the evolution is a proper theory. Cool

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48816
At my desk.

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #100 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 8:10pm

Quote:

What do you mean "evolution should not be taught in high-schools"?

I wouldn't say that. I have been considering a way to rephrase what I actually said more appropriately.

Quote:

Theories like Natural Selection came from Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution.

Mendel was also a key player.

Quote:

Also evolution IS a theory you can test.

I didn't say you couldn't test it. I said you cannot perform a scientific experiment that would disprove the theory if it were incorrect. That is, it is not falsifiable.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #101 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 9:17pm

MrLegoiNation wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

What do you mean "evolution should not be taught in high-schools"? Evolutions is the most complete explanation of how we as humans came to be. On top of that, the title 'Theory of Evolution' means today that Charles Darwin's original theory is now an 'over theory' of sorts, it's Big Daddy of all evolutionary science. Theories like Natural Selection came from Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution. Also evolution IS a theory you can test. If you look at the physiology of a Whale, you can see arm and shoulder bones similar to those in a land mammal, even though the Whale is deep sea creature... and mammal. See, simple observable proof the evolution is a proper theory. Cool

Apart from the original inception of the first life. That's abiogenesis.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #102 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 9:30pm

freediver wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 8:10pm:

I didn't say you couldn't test it. I said you cannot perform a scientific experiment that would disprove the theory if it were incorrect. That is, it is not falsifiable.

That's not the same as non-scientific. That's the old Popper gamut again. Popper had a great theory with one very slight problem: It didn't actually take account of how science works in practice.

If we believed Popper, none of the observational sciences would be scientific.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded

Gold Member

Offline

MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966

Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory
Reply #103 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 11:29pm

muso wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 9:30pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 8:10pm:

I didn't say you couldn't test it. I said you cannot perform a scientific experiment that would disprove the theory if it were incorrect. That is, it is not falsifiable.

That's not the same as non-scientific. That's the old Popper gamut again. Popper had a great theory with one very slight problem: It didn't actually take account of how science works in practice.

If we believed Popper, none of the observational sciences would be scientific.

Herein lies where I throw my hands in the air and start looking at art and stuff on the net,...

ah, now...

Cool

(art clears the mind apparently,.. the secrets of life are found in art they say..!)

Back to top

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Evolution is not a scientific theory Reply #104 - Feb 17^th, 2014 at 9:22am freediver wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 8:10pm: I didn't say you couldn't test it. I said you cannot perform a scientific experiment that would disprove the theory if it were incorrect. That is, it is not falsifiable. That is smacking rubbish. Find a fossil out of its geologic time slot, evolution disproved.
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged