Australian Politics Forum - muslims in australia

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: muslims in australia Reply #30 - Aug 7^th, 2010 at 11:06pm he slaughtered the meat against the laws of australia. according to you, that's immaterial
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: muslims in australia Reply #31 - Aug 8^th, 2010 at 12:36am The laws were wrong. Just like there was a law back then that you could hunt Aborigines if you found them on your property in Tasmania, do you agree with that law too sprint, just because it was the law? Is your morality merely defined by what's on the law books? If so then you're a pretty immoral person..
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Amadd

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #32 - Aug 8^th, 2010 at 2:57am

Quote:

Just like there was a law back then that you could hunt Aborigines if you found them on your property in Tasmania, do you agree with that law too sprint, just because it was the law? Is your morality merely defined by what's on the law books?

Abu, that was then, this is now.
I am not them. We are not them. The democratic principle at the time was not that, else there would be no change.
Take a good hard look at what you are now and what you support...now.

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abu_rashid

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #33 - Aug 8^th, 2010 at 9:45am

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Abu, that was then, this is now.
I am not them. We are not them.

Nowhere did I mention it in relation to now, I merely set the scene for the circumstances in which it occurred. It's got nothing to do with today, in fact sprint's the only one trying to make that ridiculous parallel, so your 'advice' would be best aimed at him.

Quote:

Take a good hard look at what you are now and what you support...now.

Yes... what do I support.... now???

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Amadd

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #34 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 6:38am

Quote:

Yes... what do I support.... now???

I don't believe that I've ever heard you condemn acts of terrorism carried out by muslims, even when asked to do so.

I believe that you support:

The brotherhood of Islam regardless of heinous acts.
An Islamic state right here in Australia.
The non-separation of powers.
Everything written in the quran.
A belief that Allah is the only God.
Death to dissenters of Islam.
Sex with goats.

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abu_rashid

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #35 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 7:01am

Quote:

I don't believe that I've ever heard you condemn acts of terrorism carried out by muslims, even when asked to do so

And I don't believe I've ever heard you condemn the acts of terrorism carried out by the U.S, Australian, Israeli militaries against innocent civilians, and they are far more severe for supernumery reasons.

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I believe that you support:

The brotherhood of Islam regardless of heinous acts.

"The brotherhood of Islam"? Is that a group?

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An Islamic state right here in Australia.

I support an Islamic state in all of God's earth, and?

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The non-separation of powers

Ooh how dastardly.

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Everything written in the quran.

Of course! And?

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A belief that Allah is the only God

Of course! And?

In fact the very meaning of Allah is "The one and only God".

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Death to dissenters of Islam

I don't believe so.

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Sex with goats

Aren't bestiality, incest, homosexuality etc. more the freedom & democracy thing?

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Amadd

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #36 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 7:42am

Thanks for being honest in regards to your blinkered idealism at least.

Quote:

And I don't believe I've ever heard you condemn the acts of terrorism carried out by the U.S, Australian, Israeli militaries against innocent civilians, and they are far more severe for supernumery reasons.

Yes I have, many times.

There's nearly 7 billion individual Gods out there Abu, each wanting their own to reign supreme.
Even the most ardent of Allah supporters have only their own God's interests at heart.
Do you suppose that a suicide bomber would sacrifice his or her life for the promise of an eternity in a torturous hell? I doubt it. You gotta sell the product to the dumbass Gods.
They won't do it just out of love for somebody else's God. They are only interested in their own God, ie: themselves. In fact, they are so bent on self-importance that they will self-destruct and render themselves as organic matter for their own God's cause. Their God will have no say ever again on this earth because somebody else's God likes to eat their own. There's no brotherhood there Abu, it's just cannibalism.ii

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« Last Edit: Aug 9^th, 2010 at 8:37am by Amadd »

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: muslims in australia Reply #37 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 8:10am I wonder whether Abu prays, God willing, that one day he will have the opportunity to demonstrate his submission to Allah by being lucky enough to bash a female relative (if not to death, then at least senseless) in defense of Islam.
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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: muslims in australia Reply #38 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 9:16am Beat her lightly..with a rod!!
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Karnal

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #39 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 12:41pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 9^th, 2010 at 7:01am:

Quote:

[quote]An Islamic state right here in Australia.

I support an Islamic state in all of God's earth, and?

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The non-separation of powers

Ooh how dastardly.

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Everything written in the quran.

A couple of "serious" questions, Abu:

Would you really prefer an Islamic theocracy to the admittedly lame system of government we have now?

Also, do you take everything in the Koran at its face value? Is there any room for interpretation, doubt, divine revelation, etc? Or do we just accept the word as law?

Personally, I wouldn't really like to live in an Islamic state. I'm sure there are some pluses, such as universal health care, full employment, free food for the poor, zero interest rates, and other nice-sounding policies that may be applied in theory. But there are problems too. The decapitation factor turns many people off. The religious police are a rather necessary evil of an Islamic state, even if you're religious.

I know that "supporting" an Islamic state is a different matter to fighting for one - a question of values like supporting gay marriage or a ban on abortions, or a host of other issues that are unlikely to happen.

The question I'd really like to pose is this: is it necessary for devout Muslims to support an Islamic state for all of God's earth?

Or is this just a preference?

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abu_rashid

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #40 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 6:35pm

helian,

Quote:

I wonder whether Abu prays, God willing, that one day he will have the opportunity to demonstrate his submission to Allah by being lucky enough to bash a female relative (if not to death, then at least senseless) in defense of Islam.

You appear more and more pathetic with each piece of fabricated nonsense that you press out of that poor keyboard.

karnal,

Quote:

A couple of "serious" questions

You? Serious? Grin

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Would you really prefer an Islamic theocracy to the admittedly lame system of government we have now?

Of course as a Muslim I would prefer a Caliphate. When you say Islamic theocracy, it seems you're pointing to places like Saudi Arabia maybe. If I preferred the Saudi Monarchy style of government (actually founded by the British) then I'd be there, wouldn't i?

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Also, do you take everything in the Koran at its face value?

Yes. I take it as the 100% unadulterated word of God.

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Is there any room for interpretation

All human perception is interpretation isn't it?

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doubt

No. As some of the opening verses state: "This is the book, wherein is no doubt".

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divine revelation, etc?

Not quite sure how that is different to the first part of the question.

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Or do we just accept the word as law?

I am not qualified to merely "take the word as law". It must be interpreted by one who has studied in extensively, and who is qualified to derive rulings from it.

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Personally, I wouldn't really like to live in an Islamic state

Well it's moot until one exists. I think a lot of non-Muslims will want to live and work etc. in the Caliphate when it is re-established.

Again, I think this is based on common misconceptions that derive from people's views of Saudi Arabia et. al.

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I'm sure there are some pluses, such as universal health care, full employment, free food for the poor, zero interest rates, and other nice-sounding policies that may be applied in theory.

Just a few

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But there are problems too. The decapitation factor turns many people off.

Didn't your parents ever teach you that with rights come responsibilities?

Capital punishment exists in several countries today, yet I doubt you'd consider all those places unlivable.

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The religious police are a rather necessary evil of an Islamic state, even if you're religious.

There's no such thing as "religious police" in Islam. This one is quite clearly a result of the Saudi Arabia misconceptions.

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The question I'd really like to pose is this: is it necessary for devout Muslims to support an Islamic state for all of God's earth?

Or is this just a preference?

Of course they should support it.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #41 - Aug 9^th, 2010 at 7:33pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 9^th, 2010 at 6:35pm:

helian,

Quote:

I wonder whether Abu prays, God willing, that one day he will have the opportunity to demonstrate his submission to Allah by being lucky enough to bash a female relative (if not to death, then at least senseless) in defense of Islam.

You appear more and more pathetic with each piece of fabricated nonsense that you press out of that poor keyboard.

Ah, come on… You know you dream it so don’t pretend you don’t.

Think about it… A relative, yes… But now a Jezebel… An abomination in the sight of Allah, in the face of whom you get to splatter battery acid and, with one of those smooth round river rocks you collected together on a sultry day during a youthful northern gallivant, you could smash in the side of her face.

Who, but only those blind to truth, could deny the fidelity of your submission then?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #42 - Aug 10^th, 2010 at 10:13am

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 9^th, 2010 at 6:35pm:

Quote:

Also, do you take everything in the Koran at its face value?

Yes. I take it as the 100% unadulterated word of God.

Quote:

Is there any room for interpretation

All human perception is interpretation isn't it?

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doubt

No. As some of the opening verses state: "This is the book, wherein is no doubt".

Quote:

divine revelation, etc?

Not quite sure how that is different to the first part of the question.

German textual analysis will be fateful to Islamic doctrine. The 100% unadulterated word of god is an unsupportable position unless aided by dearh threats against dissenters.

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« Last Edit: Aug 10^th, 2010 at 10:20am by Soren »

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Karnal

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #43 - Aug 10^th, 2010 at 11:02am

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 9^th, 2010 at 6:35pm:

Quote:

The question I'd really like to pose is this: is it necessary for devout Muslims to support an Islamic state for all of God's earth?

Or is this just a preference?

Of course they should support it.

Thanks a lot for your reply.

By theocracy I mean a government with the "priests" and "bishops" making the key decisions. I guess I'm thinking more of Iran than Saudi Arabia.

Your caliphate, however, sounds like a distant dream: a utopia. It has echoes of Plato's Republic and Thomas Moore. It is a very Western ideal indeed. And to be honest, I can understand why many fear the zeal of such a political dream.

For me, it just seems like a myth - the rock candy mountain.

But what goes on in people's heads is important. If indeed all Muslims should support a Muslim theocracy for all of God's earth, doesn't this give weight to the paranoia of the anti-Muslim brigade?

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abu_rashid

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Re: muslims in australia
Reply #44 - Aug 10^th, 2010 at 8:07pm

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By theocracy I mean a government with the "priests" and "bishops" making the key decisions.

Islam doesn't even institute a clergy, let alone rule by one.

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Your caliphate, however, sounds like a distant dream: a utopia.

Dreams and utopias do not exist, the Caliphate has existed. So not quite.. unless you'd like to redefine the terms dream and utopia?

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It has echoes of Plato's Republic and Thomas Moore.

As above, unlike those it actually existed.

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It is a very Western ideal indeed.

Apparently everything is 'Western'... right? I am honestly struggling to comprehend how you came up with that one...

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But what goes on in people's heads is important. If indeed all Muslims should support a Muslim theocracy for all of God's earth, doesn't this give weight to the paranoia of the anti-Muslim brigade?

Yet the West actually implementing their global domination over the earth is fine?

The simple fact is someone, and something has to run the global order. Some prefer it to be democracy/atheism/secularism, some prefer it to be Islam. The fact of people preferring it to be something is not in and of itself wrong is it?

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