Australian Politics Forum - the technical case for the broadband network

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #15 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 8:41am

Amadd wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 3:35am:

I like really fast broadband, but what does it mean?
Streaming HD movies? That's not really important is it?

The belief that the capacity to work faster will allow us only to do faster what we did before is a mark of a mediocre mind.

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How will it impact upon us compared to what other technologies may be able to provide?

There are always alternatives. Failure to choose one is paralysis. This has been chosen.
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The price is upwards of $2000 per person. That's pretty huge.

$2,000 over 8 years = $250 per year = less than $5 per week. Huge?

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We are also going increasingly mobile. For the most part, we don't even need that sort of capacity.

Non sequitur. The fact that the significance of mobile is increasing does not render fixed lines unnecessary. The technologies are complementary.

Assuming that we don't currently need that sort of capacity (which is questionable), can you guarantee that we never will? Competitor nations are upgrading their infrastructure. To quote from http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/2010-August/089266.html: Quote:

... with our trading partners moving to fibre, applications that consume higher bandwidth *will* emerge and we will be caught short as a nation if in the long term we don't have the infrastructure to compete.

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I really wonder why this has been made out to be a priority when it clearly isn't.

Clearly, those who are qualified to know, know better.

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #16 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 9:29am

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For the most part, we don't even need that sort of capacity.

Capacity demands are constantly on the increase. Streaming HD is just the beginning. Your imagination is your only limit. We could have virtual computing, so you only need a screen, mouse and keyboard. How much would that save you? No more DVD rentals. No more waiting in a doctors office for 2 hours just to get a minor ailment looked at. Plus all the things we can't even think of yet.

Need is not the same thing as economic demand. We could do without most of the crap we own, but that doesn't make it a good idea to throw it all out.

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I really wonder why this has been made out to be a priority when it clearly isn't.

Is it not a priority so much as a controversy. They are taking a long time to get it done.

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The belief that the capacity to work faster will allow us only to do faster what we did before is a mark of a mediocre mind.

In my job I am always on the limit of what PC speed will allow me to do. Give me a 10 year old PC and my productivity would drop to the point where I am completely uncompetitive. Give me one from 10 years into the future and it would be like a revolution.

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Bobby.

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #17 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:30am

Freediver.
Quote:

In my job I am always on the limit of what PC speed will allow me to do. Give me a 10 year old PC and my productivity would drop to the point where I am completely uncompetitive. Give me one from 10 years into the future and it would be like a revolution.

I remember when we had 56K modems.
When I got a 512K speed line I thought it was wonderful.
Now I have ADSL2+ at 3.2 Megabits per second & even
that is not fast enough for me.
It would be great to buy DVDs over the internet & download them quickly & burn them onto a disc.
I have also heard of virtual meetings in 3D where the boss appears
in front of you as though he was really there even though
he may be on the other side of the world.
This is where we are heading.
Our present system doesn't do it.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49445 At my desk.	Re: the technical case for the broadband network Reply #18 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:32am You won't need a disc. They just take up space.
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Sir lastnail

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #19 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:38am

This should be proof to the libbos that private enterprise doesn't always deliver. They would prefer to stagnate the technology whilst ripping off the punters for old outdated and obsolete technology and screw them for as long as they can Sad

Just look at all of the vendors still ripping off the punters for dial up connections. They should be giving that stuff away for free !!

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: the technical case for the broadband network Reply #20 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:54am Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:38am: ... Just look at all of the vendors still ripping off the punters for dial up connections. They should be giving that stuff away for free !! Most of Telstra's board just had heart attacks.
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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #21 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:57am

freediver wrote on Sep 9^th, 2010 at 10:18pm:

Yeah my college had that happen at least once a year when they put up the fence for a party. They would drive a star picket into the same fibre cable. For some reason they never learned.

It was the fastest internet I had ever had, and they would have to cut the cable far more often to make me put up with something slower.

I'm talking about the type of cuts that occured recently at the NSW/QLD border that cost days of productivity and Tens of $millions in lost revenue and repair costs.

How will they address the very real problem of power cuts to hubs; FO can not carry power.

I'm not against the idea, but 43000 Million bucks is not to be trusted with the mob who can bugger up the national installation of pinks batts/sarking.

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #22 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:59am

Quote:

I'm talking about the type of cuts that occured recently at the NSW/QLD border that cost days of productivity and Tens of $millions in lost revenue and repair costs.

That's like arguing that we shouldn't have mains power in case it gets taken away. Isn't this an argument for fibre optics, because it is worth so much?

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #23 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:01am

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 10:59am:

Quote:

I'm talking about the type of cuts that occured recently at the NSW/QLD border that cost days of productivity and Tens of $millions in lost revenue and repair costs.

That's like arguing that we shouldn't have mains power in case it gets taken away. Isn't this an argument for fibre optics, because it is worth so much?

Subterranean cables are cut daily.

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #24 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:03am

I'm on cable now I think. We've had the connection for at least a year. Not a single cut in that time. the cutting is not inherent to fibre optics, but is only related to what you lay it in and how you lay it. The cuts to fibre optic cables are more a reflection of how cheap the cable is and how safe it is to have it running just under the surface.

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #25 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:07am

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:03am:

I'm on cable now I think. We've had the connection for at least a year. Not a single cut in that time. the cutting is not inherent to fibre optics, but is only related to what you lay it in and how you lay it. The cuts to fibre optic cables are more a reflection of how cheap the cable is and how safe it is to have it running just under the surface.

Overhead or underground cable?

Fibre optic is cheap, but very difficult to repair breaks in it; read incredibly slow and ultra costly. That's not disputable.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49445 At my desk.	Re: the technical case for the broadband network Reply #26 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:09am So you lay it in a way that considers the cost of repairs vs the cost of laying. I'm not sure why this is a problem. If breaking a fibre optic cable is such a disaster, then it is an even bigger disaster to not have one in the first place.
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qikvtec

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #27 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:20am

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:09am:

So you lay it in a way that considers the cost of repairs vs the cost of laying. I'm not sure why this is a problem. If breaking a fibre optic cable is such a disaster, then it is an even bigger disaster to not have one in the first place.

I think you are missing the point. At present when a copper or HTC cable is cut underground or overhead it's a matter of hours and it's fixed. No major problem, somewhat frustrating and a little inconvenient.

If a FOC back bone is cut and we are solely reliant on it for the delivery of internet services, especially at a corporate level, the whole farken country will come to a grinding halt. No banking, no financial services, no legals, no police network communications, no electronic communications between government departments, NO CENTRELINK (that should be sufficient to scare the shivs out of a big chunk of the posters on here)

Are you familiar with Australia's most valuable terrorist target? It would surprise you A: Where it is B: What it is.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #28 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:23am

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If a FOC back bone is cut and we are solely reliant on it

No-one is suggesting we become solely reliant on it. You can get cheap USB modems that can take over to send emails etc while it is down. There are plenty of options and the market will adopt those as backups to the extent needed, just as campanies have backup diesel generators if it is really that important they have a constant supply.

So once again, no problem.

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Re: the technical case for the broadband network
Reply #29 - Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:31am

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 11:23am:

Quote:

If a FOC back bone is cut and we are solely reliant on it

No-one is suggesting we become solely reliant on it. You can get cheap USB modems that can take over to send emails etc while it is down. There are plenty of options and the market will adopt those as backups to the extent needed, just as campanies have backup diesel generators if it is really that important they have a constant supply.

So once again, no problem.

Do you honestly expect a telecommunications company would maintain existing networks once the FOC is rolled out?

You are showing your ignorance, if you think emails are vital to corporate network services. You can pick up a mobile phone and call anyone you need to communicate with, communicating with CRM's and other critical software between various locations would be simply impossible. We have an 8mb/s link between our offices that struggles at times to maintain reasonable connection speed depending on demand and processes. When that goes down, we can do absolutely nothing; might as well go to the pub. Wireless USB dongle would be a complete waste of time.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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