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Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits. (Read 15104 times)
deepthought
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #45 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:02pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 10:58pm:
This will confuse them greatly because they are FACTS and they like to deal with preconceptions and emotions.  It is much easier to abuse those who are doing well than to seek to emulate them. It is much easier to stay on the dole than to seek to become a successful business owner. And so the cycle continues and those who complain stay poor while those who work hard get rich. Guess who the anti-private school people on here are???



Yes, I apologise for introducing reality into the fantasy.

But I thought everyone knew that, on average, private school children cost about half as much (to the taxpayer) as a state school student.

The reality is the parents of private school children do not get value for money.

But that is the choice they make.  I for one would like to see greater fairness in funding.
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longweekend58
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #46 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:06pm
 
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 10:59pm:
here is a chart i am trying to find the figure i saw the other day showing state school funding per year it is a lot less then you think.. 33 % compared to 68 %

http://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjMOrrpbiFadHBd2gVlBlsTjeGzyTWO8...


Chart didnt work but IM sure I know what it is. it is a chart of FEDERAL govt only funding probably from the education UNion who love to misrepresent facts almost as much as they love stalinism. you have to add state govt funding into the mix which is where you get the actual fact that public schools are funded 30% HIGHER than private schools - which is inequitable and provate funding should be increase 30% IMMEDIATELY!
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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deepthought
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #47 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:09pm
 
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 10:59pm:
here is a chart i am trying to find the figure i saw the other day showing state school funding per year it is a lot less then you think.. 33 % compared to 68 %



You are quoting only federal funding (though your figures are not quite accurate).

The model for federal funding of private schools and state government funding of government schools was introduced by a Labor Government - Whitlam's if I recall.

The total funding is disproportionately in favour of state schools.
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Binary Ninja
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #48 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:10pm
 
the reality is they choose to send them to a private school , they choose to pay the schools fees , the school chooses to run in the private sector and use these fees for what ever .. hence why would you ask for government funding if private ... private business cant ..

but that isn't the point i don't begrudge the funding to private , catholic , independent  and state and this is only about ELITE and as the chart above shows the SES funding is screwed
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longweekend58
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #49 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:12pm
 
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:10pm:
the reality is they choose to send them to a private school , they choose to pay the schools fees , the school chooses to run in the private sector and use these fees for what ever .. hence why would you ask for government funding if private ... private business cant ..

but that isn't the point i don't begrudge the funding to private , catholic , independent  and state and this is only about ELITE and as the chart above shows the SES funding is screwed


as was amply shown, Geelong Grammars funding was below the average for private schools. so what was your problem again?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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deepthought
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #50 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:12pm
 
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:10pm:
the reality is they choose to send them to a private school , they choose to pay the schools fees , the school chooses to run in the private sector and use these fees for what ever .. hence why would you ask for government funding if private ... private business cant ..

but that isn't the point i don't begrudge the funding to private , catholic , independent  and state and this is only about ELITE and as the chart above shows the SES funding is screwed


Education is one of the services provided by government.

Are you proposing that taxpayers can opt out of paying taxes if they opt out of using the services?
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longweekend58
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #51 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:20pm
 
deepthought wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:12pm:
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:10pm:
the reality is they choose to send them to a private school , they choose to pay the schools fees , the school chooses to run in the private sector and use these fees for what ever .. hence why would you ask for government funding if private ... private business cant ..

but that isn't the point i don't begrudge the funding to private , catholic , independent  and state and this is only about ELITE and as the chart above shows the SES funding is screwed


Education is one of the services provided by government.

Are you proposing that taxpayers can opt out of paying taxes if they opt out of using the services?


This is an old and on-going argument. I maintain that very little of the anti-private school arguments are based on principle. Most are nothing more than greed and envy masquerading as protest. The voices of the under-acheiver shouting at those who are doing better. Rather than complain, we should aim to make ourselves successful enough so that our kids can attend these schools - or not. But let it be our choice and not because we cant afford it.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Binary Ninja
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #52 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:21pm
 
no i propose if the school is elitist and does not require funding for the 18th oval they are not funded ,, other schools cant even afford air conditioning in hot summers of QLD

State school funding for 2006 / 2007 for all of Australia totaled $22 odd million plus the $300,000 or so from federal doesn't even come close

QLD : 4.3 Million
NSW : 7.5 Million
VIC : 4.7 Million
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longweekend58
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #53 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:25pm
 
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:21pm:
no i propose if the school is elitist and does not require funding for the 18th oval they are not funded ,, other schools cant even afford air conditioning in hot summers of QLD

State school funding for 2006 / 2007 for all of Australia totaled $22 odd million plus the $300,000 or so from federal doesn't even come close

QLD : 4.3 Million
NSW : 7.5 Million
VIC : 4.7 Million


Try again... or do you really want us to believe that the ENTIRE nationwide state govt education funding was $22MILLION?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Binary Ninja
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #54 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:28pm
 
they are the figures i can see ..
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Equitist
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #55 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:32pm
 

Surely, folks, the primary role of governments in education, ought to be to: overcome the relative socio-economic advantages and disadvantages experienced by children by accident of birth - rather than to reinforce or exacerbate the polarisation!?
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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #56 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:34pm
 
Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:28pm:
they are the figures i can see ..


Then your credibility just fell thru the floor. exactly how many TEACHERS do you think you can emply for $22M? about 250. nation wide. perhaps you might want to get your figures a bit more accurate.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #57 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:35pm
 
Equitist wrote on Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:32pm:
Surely, folks, the primary role of governments in education, ought to be to: overcome the relative socio-economic advantages and disadvantages experienced by children by accident of birth - rather than to reinforce or exacerbate the polarisation!?


Silly me... I thought the purpose of education was... AN EDUCATION.

kind of explains a lot, dont it!
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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #58 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:40pm
 

Here is an old article - which aptly predicts the increased polarisation...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/more-privilege-for-the-privileged/2007/05/22/...

Quote:
More privilege for the privileged

Ross Gittins

May 23, 2007

It's amazing what the onset of an election does to lift the performance of a government, particularly if its opponents are looking in any degree competitive. Consider our discovery - just since the budget - that John Howard is our Great Education Prime Minister.

That's funny because, until he set us straight, I'd have said the one thing Howard wasn't on about was education. Not at any level - school, vocational education and training, or university.

In fairness, the state governments haven't been much better. But I certainly hadn't noticed the feds setting them a good example. Education is one area where Australia's spent the past decade resting on its laurels.

In the case of schools, Howard's greatest achievement has been to bias federal grants heavily in favour of private schools - particularly the least needy.

Consider this comparison from Making Federalism Work for Schools, a report prepared by Lyndsay Connors for the NSW Public Education Alliance.

In 1974, when the Whitlam government brought the Commonwealth into school funding in a significant way, about 70 per cent of its grants went to government schools and 27 per cent to private schools (with the remainder going on joint programs). This was roughly in line with the two sectors' shares of enrolments.

Today, the budget shows public schools getting 31 per cent of the money while the private schools get 69 per cent. But public schools still have two-thirds of the enrolments.

Mainly because of Commonwealth grants, funding for non-government schools is growing at three times the rate of spending on public schools, which is far in excess of the growth in the private sector's share of enrolments.

Only about 13 per cent of students attend independent non-government schools (as opposed to Catholic systemic schools), which is less than a fifth the number of students at public schools. But the Commonwealth now spends more on that 13 per cent than it does on students at public schools.

Get this: the minimum grant per student paid to private schools ranked as the least needy is now far higher than the grant per student paid to public schools.

This is the "education revolution" no one wants to talk about. The feds are quietly moving to a position where they look after the private schools and leave the public schools to the states. In 2004-05, governments at both levels spent about $31 billion on the recurrent operations of all schools. Of this, the states spent more than three times what the feds spent: $24 billion versus $7 billion.

But whereas the state and territory governments devoted only 7 per cent of their spending to private schools, the feds devoted more than 69 per cent of their spending to private schools.

To put it another way, government schools get 9 per cent of their recurrent funds from the Commonwealth, whereas non-government schools get 73 per cent of their recurrent spending grants from the Commonwealth.

The trouble with this is that it's the feds who've got all the money. The Commonwealth raises 80 per cent of the taxation, but does only 54 per cent of government spending. The states raise 16 per cent of the taxation, but do about 40 per cent of the spending.

Australia is the only country where the provision of public funding for private schools is the dominant function of the national government - and constitutes the largest item in its education budget.

The independent schools are now the fastest growing sector. And, relative to need, they do best. One study found that 27 per cent of the students in independent schools attended schools where just the money from school fees paid by parents exceeded the average resources per student in public schools.

In 2004 these schools received $368 million a year in government grants, which helped to raise their total resources per student to more than 62 per cent above the average resources per student in public schools. In other words, the Howard Government has changed its private school funding formula in such a way as to increase the privilege of the privileged private schools.

Overall, 55 per cent of students at independent schools attend schools where the total resources per student are higher than they are for public schools.

But that means 45 per cent of students at independent schools attend schools where total resources per student are lower than they are for public schools. These are safe to include the more recently established Anglican and evangelical Christian independent schools in outer suburbs, where parents can't afford to pay all that much in the way of school fees.

So Howard has changed the Commonwealth's grants to private schools in a way that's discriminatory even among the independent schools. But don't say he doesn't follow biblical principles - to whoever hath, it shall be given.

How did he manage to put such a regressive bias into grants to independent schools? Paradoxically, by switching to a funding formula based on the average socioeconomic status of people in the suburb or town each of an independent school's parents came from - but adding a rule that no school's grant would be reduced under the new arrangement.


...

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Re: Elite Private Schools Rake In The Profits.
Reply #59 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 11:43pm
 

Quote:
So Howard has changed the Commonwealth's grants to private schools in a way that's discriminatory even among the independent schools. But don't say he doesn't follow biblical principles - to whoever hath, it shall be given.

How did he manage to put such a regressive bias into grants to independent schools? Paradoxically, by switching to a funding formula based on the average socioeconomic status of people in the suburb or town each of an independent school's parents came from - but adding a rule that no school's grant would be reduced under the new arrangement.


In other words, the new formula could make an independent school better off but not worse off. This threw up many anomalies, with huge increases in grants going to some privileged schools (including one my son had gone to) patronised by parents who tended to be among the best-off people in not-well-off suburbs or towns.

Another odd feature of all this is that Howard has not imposed anything much in the way of conditions on the big grants he's paying to private schools. What they do choose to do - such as continuing to impose hefty annual fee increases on their parents - is up to them.

By contrast, he and his minister are always coming up with new conditions they want to impose on public schools, and always threatening to withhold grants if the states fail to comply.

You get the feeling his bias is as much anti-public as it is pro-private.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/more-privilege-for-the-privileged/2007/05/22/...
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