Australian Politics Forum - Police killings

Aussie

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Re: Police killings
Reply #15 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:35am

Quote:

And?....most people killed by the police are either trying to kill the police, or trying to kill some poor citizen...like YOU

Don't fall into the 'trap' of thinking all police are 'bent'.....like motorcyclists...it's about 1% (worldwide) that are dodgy...

Fair enough, in times long past the percentage may have been higher....but these days, the only thing a copper hates more than a crim....is a bent copper.

You may have missed my point, which has nothing to do with bent coppers.

I have always been curious why an ordinary person, who has killed in the most obvious circumstances of self defence, is still charged, and put throught the judicial system to have their fate determined, as opposed to for example this current case, where a copper has shot someone, yet his colleagues are saying they will not charge him. That highlights the fact that coppers will protect their own from having their fate determined by the judicial system, with the simple expediency of not charging him.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Police killings
Reply #16 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:38am

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:35am:

Quote:

And?....most people killed by the police are either trying to kill the police, or trying to kill some poor citizen...like YOU

Don't fall into the 'trap' of thinking all police are 'bent'.....like motorcyclists...it's about 1% (worldwide) that are dodgy...

Fair enough, in times long past the percentage may have been higher....but these days, the only thing a copper hates more than a crim....is a bent copper.

You may have missed my point, which has nothing to do with bent coppers.

I have always been curious why an ordinary person, who has killed in the most obvious circumstances of self defence, is still charged, and put throught the judicial system to have their fate determined, as opposed to for example this current case, where a copper has shot someone, yet his colleagues are saying they will not charge him. That highlights the fact that coppers will protect their own from having their fate determined by the judicial system, with the simple expediency of not charging him.

For much the same reason soldiers aren't charge with murder for killing enemy soldiers........It's their job, if necessary, to kill..

Same as with the police, they are authorised to take a life if there is no other option....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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locutius

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Re: Police killings
Reply #17 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:54am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2010 at 10:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2010 at 9:55pm:

Binary Ninja wrote on Sep 14^th, 2010 at 9:43pm:

yeah charged , went to court , judge told the police to take a hike , no case

Okay, so I am still searching for the occasion when someone, not a Police Officer, killed someone and was not charged, and tried.

There were 3 WW2 vets, in a period of about 5 weeks (15 or 20 yrs ago) 1 in Sydney, 1 in Melbourne and 1 in Brisbane....ALL 3 were victims of home invasions....all 3 killed the attackers, the first one ( in Sydney I think) was arrested and charged, but the charge was dismissed, the 2nd was arrested but never charged and the 3rd wasn't even arrested..

That's music to me ears. Pity the first two had to be arrested though. Hope all three recieved a special commendation for extra service to their country. I salute you boys!!!

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38862 Gender:	Re: Police killings Reply #18 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:56am Quote: Same as with the police, they are authorised to take a life if there is no other option.... The coppers have no more authority to kill than you or I have. There is no special provision which gives them any greater authority than is available to a non copper.
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Deborahmac09

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Re: Police killings
Reply #19 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 9:29am

Okay this guy did not kill the intruder, but police concluded that it was self defence.

Police say a 77-year-old grandfather who shot a home intruder in the stomach at his Herne Hill winery last night had a right to defend himself.

The family of Eugenio Valenti, who was left shaken by the incident, is now calling on the State Government to improve community safety.

Police said Mr Valenti fired off a round of his 12-gauge shotgun in his house after he armed himself in his bedroom and threatened to shoot if the men came into his room.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/grandfather-had-right-to-selfdefence-police-20090219-8bqk.html

If I remember correctly, Mr Valenti locked himself in his bedroom with his invalid wife.

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BigOl64

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Re: Police killings
Reply #20 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 9:55am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:38am:

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:35am:

Quote:

And?....most people killed by the police are either trying to kill the police, or trying to kill some poor citizen...like YOU

Don't fall into the 'trap' of thinking all police are 'bent'.....like motorcyclists...it's about 1% (worldwide) that are dodgy...

Fair enough, in times long past the percentage may have been higher....but these days, the only thing a copper hates more than a crim....is a bent copper.

You may have missed my point, which has nothing to do with bent coppers.

I have always been curious why an ordinary person, who has killed in the most obvious circumstances of self defence, is still charged, and put throught the judicial system to have their fate determined, as opposed to for example this current case, where a copper has shot someone, yet his colleagues are saying they will not charge him. That highlights the fact that coppers will protect their own from having their fate determined by the judicial system, with the simple expediency of not charging him.

For much the same reason soldiers aren't charge with murder for killing enemy soldiers........It's their job, if necessary, to kill..

Same as with the police, they are authorised to take a life if there is no other option....

But they can and do get charged if they kill civillians, albeit inadvertantly as with the boys of the commando regiment.

The cop killed one of his own, not a crim, looks like negligence to me. Unfortunate, but well worth a presecution just like they do to civilians and soldiers for the same thing.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38862 Gender:	Re: Police killings Reply #21 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 9:58am From the very article you linked Deborah: Quote: "Obviously when anything like this happens we have to investigate all possibilities ... but we can't say at this stage whether any charges will be laid." I wonder what the final outcome was?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38862 Gender:	Re: Police killings Reply #22 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:06am Found that for myself. He was not charged. So, we have found one case involving a civilian.
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Deborahmac09

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Re: Police killings
Reply #23 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:07am

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 9:58am:

From the very article you linked Deborah:

Quote:

"Obviously when anything like this happens we have to investigate all possibilities ... but we can't say at this stage whether any charges will be laid."

I wonder what the final outcome was?

Sorry linked wrong one.

A 77-year-old Herne Hill man will not be charged over the shooting of an intruder in his home last week

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/herne-hill-man-rightly-defended-himself-in-horror-scene-police-20090223-8fcg.html

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38862 Gender:	Re: Police killings Reply #24 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:08am snap
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Deborahmac09 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1619	Re: Police killings Reply #25 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:10am Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:08am: snap Crackle pop
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Police killings Reply #26 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:19am Quote: Thousands of uniformed police officers will line the streets of Sydney on Thursday to honour their fallen colleague Constable Bill Crews. It was awfully nice of the cities crims to agree to a day off so the cops can stand around and mourn a guy 99% of them never knew.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107043 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Police killings Reply #27 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:33am It's strange how cops in England & New Zealand don't have guns & can still maintain law & order. Australia is like the wild west with cowboy cops now shooting each other.
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easel

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Re: Police killings
Reply #28 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 11:21am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 10:33am:

It's strange how cops in England & New Zealand don't have guns
& can still maintain law & order.
Australia is like the wild west with cowboy cops now
shooting each other.

They do have guns now. Because they need them, because the criminals have them.

If all the good guys had guns and were prepared to use them against the bad guys, then the police would not need guns.

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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.

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easel

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Re: Police killings
Reply #29 - Sep 15^th, 2010 at 11:23am

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2010 at 8:35am:

Quote:

And?....most people killed by the police are either trying to kill the police, or trying to kill some poor citizen...like YOU

Don't fall into the 'trap' of thinking all police are 'bent'.....like motorcyclists...it's about 1% (worldwide) that are dodgy...

Fair enough, in times long past the percentage may have been higher....but these days, the only thing a copper hates more than a crim....is a bent copper.

You may have missed my point, which has nothing to do with bent coppers.

I have always been curious why an ordinary person, who has killed in the most obvious circumstances of self defence, is still charged, and put throught the judicial system to have their fate determined, as opposed to for example this current case, where a copper has shot someone, yet his colleagues are saying they will not charge him. That highlights the fact that coppers will protect their own from having their fate determined by the judicial system, with the simple expediency of not charging him.

If there were no corrupt police there would not be a Police Integrity Commission.

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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.

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